How to help an active jw to go out??

by Nicolas 13 Replies latest jw friends

  • Nicolas
    Nicolas

    One of my sister who is a jw is still trying to keep contact with us and she's is supposed to shun us. The problem is that I don't know if I want to see her again, we have almost nothing in common and I see her just once a year but she continue to send us letters at every months and she always told us that she love us. I would like to do something to make her realize that the WBTS doesn't have the truth but I know that she will consider me as an apostate if I say something bad about the jw.

    Black holes are where God divided by zero.

  • jayhawk1
    jayhawk1

    It can be a long process. First, find some articles where the society reverses its decisions on things. For example, will the people of Sodom and Gomorrah be resurrected? The back and forth debate inside the Society is amazing.

    Next, if you can actually start a conversation about the anointed and how they think they are superior to the average JW. Ask how do they prove that they are.

    Another good thing to discuss is when armageddon will begin. JWs have for years said how bad it is on Earth. Unfortunitly for their cause, that is not the case. Another topic about armageddon is the society has mentioned several dates. 1878, 1914, 1919, 1925, 1940's, 1975, etc. I have even heard of 2005 being a posibility.

    Unfortunitly for you, there is not an easy answer to your question. I wish you luck, but before somebody can leave the JWs, they must want to leave.

    "Hand me that whiskey, I need to consult the spirit."-J.F. Rutherford

    Jeremy's Hate Mail Hall Of Fame.
    http://hometown.aol.com/onjehovahside/ and [email protected]

  • Bang
    Bang

    Jayhawk,
    I'm not a JW and haven't been one, but it seems that exjws indicate that what I would consider more irrelevant debates have a really strong effect - such as what happens with Sodom and Gommorah, or whether the borg had a library card.

    I would have thought that matters of honour and dignity would be a really strong jolt for breaking the bond - things like Agreeing with a group or god who's very soon going to set fire to the kindly folk and pat some scribes on the head - or the dishonour (effeminacy of mind) in matters of kissin a demanding wicked ass, and so on.

    Those who are out have let their yes be yes and their no be no, and I can respect that - but those who are in oppress their own soul's needs with all kinds of confusing evil. Like men and women, body and soul are intertwined and become one - but rather than listening to the soul 'in the house' they bring in tantalising things and promises to cojole or manipulate the woman (soul) into doing things they desire, a deception that is deceiving their whole self - and then say, "I'm happily married" - but you can tell who isn't.

    I thought that giving things up cold turkey was effective, and I also thought that matters of honour help to make a stand, but then again, like I said, I haven't been there. I still wonder.

    Bang

  • AjaxMan
    AjaxMan

    Nicolas,

    For your sister to get out, she must be willing to do that as JayHawk pointed out.
    I think maybe your sister is trying to have you come back to them because of her calls and letters.

    Ajax

    "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things and the best things never die." - The Shawshank Redemption

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Nicolas,

    As dubs, we were all taught we had an obligation to help people get saved before this wicked old system of things comes to an end.

    Now that we are free from that fiction-based mind control, we know that no such threat exists and that no such obligation exists.

    I'll suggest that you have no obligation to rescue anyone who is an active JW, if they are comfortable with the illusions created by that particular religious opiate.

    If they are miserable or they are being abused, of course, there may be valid reasons for wanting to rescue them.

    Go easy on yourself. Don't assume an "obligation" that does not exist.

  • SEAKEN2001
    SEAKEN2001

    I have to agree with Nathan here. If she is happy in her religion you do not have to try and get her out. Probably do more harm then good.

    And I agre with Jayhawks last statement, that they have to want out. Just make yourself available to her if she ever gets to that point.

    Since she is not in your life already there is no need to feel guilty about not trying to groom the relationship if all she wants to do is save you from Armageddon. Ask her clearly what her intentions are. If she just wants to be friends and supports your chosen religious path than maybe you can pursue it.

    If she were a big part of your life, like your wife or best friend, it would be different. Then there would be ways to try and pry them away, chipping away little by little, carefully. I understand there are some good papers writen on the subject on Randy's site and maybe a few other XJW sites on the net. Check them out.

    Sean

  • LB
    LB

    Nicolas if she is supposed to shun you, then doesn't she already consider you an apostate? What would be the difference if you brought up a few things? After all it seems you aren't all that concerned to be keeping contact with her anyway, right? Speak your mind, at this point in your life you are allowed to.


    Never Squat With Yer Spurs On

  • anewperson
    anewperson

    Handy:

    LOVING OUR JEHOVAH'S WITNESS FAMILY & FRIENDS, we're informing the congregation and public with documentated facts that expose misleadership by the Watchtower Society (WTS) heads over our JW loved ones:

    WTS heads denounced the UN as ungodly even while the WTS was a Non-Government Organization of the UN 1991-0ct 2001 & this was far more than just using the UN's libary as proved by AWAKE articles Nov 22, 1998 in particular and http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,574134,00.html
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,565005,00.html
    http://www.thetablet.co.uk/cgi-bin/archive_db.cgi?tablet-00577

    Acts 15:20 says abstain from blood but 1 Samuel 14:32-5 says Saul's army ate unBLED meat to not starve and no verses show God not forgiving them plus in Matthew 7 Christ says God also forgave David's eating temple holy bread and that God wants Mercy Not Sacrifice. The May 22, 1994 Awake tells of 26 JW children who died without transfusions, and common sense tells that in extremely massive bleeding as in car wrecks blood expanders won't save lives (ajwrb.org). An estimated 3 JWs die daily earthwide from the WTS’s unscriptural policy (Blood On The Altar, David Reed), forgotten by many but not God!

    Christ said families would be divided by some members doing good and others doing wrongs but never ever advocated destruction of families. 1 Corinthians 6:1 only says judge "trivial" things as in business, James 2:4-13 calls judging harmful, and Paul says the "majority" (2 Cor 2:6), followed his advice to shun a wrongdoer, meaning a minority chose not to and yet he nowhere condemns them. So we ask why the formal Judicial Committes destroying families via their numerous formal renderings of disfellowshipment?

    All members are told to report on each other though the Bible condemns busy-bodying. Page 302 in the Daniel book and pages 88 and 651 in the Proclaimers book show photos of the Knights Templar swords and the cross-with-crown-and-wreath used by Masons who sometimes use "Theocratic Warfare" tactics to change members' personalities on early WTS’s literature. Some old Watchtower books also have the winged sun god Ra on front covers - never a Christian symbol. Nor are regular JWs allowed to read Judicial Committee "sin files" on themselves, many not knowing they exist; often with misinformation.(photos: freeminds.org) See also picture of Pay Attention To Yourselves And All The Flock book on p 232 of the Insight book that elders have but which non-elders are not allowed to read.

    Verses say don't forget the poor (Galatians 2:10), give free (Mat 10:8), and Christ helped the hungry and sick, so why ask donations at doors since, as the New World translation puts it, "we're not peddlars of God's word" (2 Cor 2:17, New World)? 2 Tim 5:8 condemns those uncaring of their own so why after 120 years do WTS heads not have for the needy among JWs & others regular food-clothing collections, soup kitchens, hospitals, nursing homes--only token literacy classes, short term disaster relief committees existing briefly after disasters? What our hands do to help people is a greater witness than our mouths.

    Doctrinally Watchtower leaders admit Christ was likely born about Oct 2, so why ignore he was conceived 9 months before which means late December. Why insist Christmas is from the pagan Saturnalia when John 10:22-3 says Christ also celebrated the Festival of Dedication or Lights, i.e. Hannukah, which first began Dec 25 but has varied since because lunar-based? Don't Job 1:3, 3:1 and 3:3 (you must read all 3 verses) show Job's kids celebrated birthdays? Didn't angels celebrate Christ's birth? Why call "compromises" those holidays that attacked and replaced paganisms? Doesn’t Colossians 12:16 says let none judge you about a holiday. WTS heads say the Trinity is believing Father, Son, Spirit are 1 "identical" person yet not all but many churches accept it as 3 totally different entities or persons forming 1 "Godship" as Ro 1:20 says in the New World Translation. WTS heads don't note Son and Spirit can share inherited age, power, knowledge from God just as an acorn may be only 1 day old but also have its genes inheriting its ancestral oak tree's age, capacity and information. WTS heads say a stake not a cross slew Christ though the Greek stauros can mean either cross or stake, crucified human remains and inscriptions by archaeologists show it was a cross, Dr F Zugibe's research shows suffocation would be in minutes if on a stake but in hours if on outstretched cross even as Luke 23:44 and Matthew 27:45-6 say. They teach a cross is a repugnant murder weapon but Paul said boast in the stauros as a symbol of resurrection over death. (Ga 6:14, 1Cor 1:17-18)

    Watchtower heads say we must use Jehovah or variations of God’s formal name (Yahweh, Jah etc) but Christ says call God “Our Father” (Mat 5:9) and Paul (Romans 8:15) also says call God “Father” for closeness so why overstress only 1 certain formal form? To hallow Our Father’s name is to glorify His personage for example by kind deeds but top WTS leaders brought disrepute on Jehovah's name often mispredicting dates for Armageddon or the Kingdom as shown in the dark green Proclaimers history (see index for dates) and some have even informally tried linking Terrorism attacks to Armageddon! Didn’t Christ say "no one" knows the hour or day of the end and isn’t mispredicting a vain usage of God’s name that keeps bringing reproach. See Ex 20:7, Deu 18:22.

    Regular members exposed Nazis but few know Germany’s Watchtower head Eric Frost betrayed them to Nazis. (www.observer.org) Betrayed during the Cold War, many East European JWs formed a highly conservative association in 1962. A Free Christians movement of mostly ex-JWs fellowships based on LOVE and Heb 6:1-2 basics. Associating independent cooperative Bible Groups (Active Christians of Jah etc) teach resurrection on Earth and to heaven but drop bad WTS policies: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jahchristian[email protected]

    Horrible but facts: Leo Greenlees was a child molester whom fellow Governing Body members over JWs reassigned but never disfellowshipped (excommunicated) in the 1980s, and to date child abuse by Watchtower Society (WTS) associates is still officially covered up, causing costly destructive court costs and reproach including articles in Christianity Today, investigations by Dateline NBC etc. For copies of letters to the Bodies Of Elders regular members aren't shown including on child abuse see: www.silentlambs.org, freeminds.org, observer.org.

    Some members have reported elders resorting to physical harassment (poking, shoving etc), hinting "Jehovah’s eyes are everywhere" and giving details of the members’ most private conversations and bedroom doings with their own marriage mates. WTS heads put out articles saying for elders not to “police” the bedrooms in 1978 but later in a talk (but not in writing) in 1983 told regular members "The Practice" of some marital intimacies can lead to Expulsion. (discussed on Jehovahs-Witness.com) Some regular JWs absent that evening have been "expelled" (harassed/trained) without clearly aware why. Contrast this to the pedophilia coverups. The "Insight" books by the WTS have articles on all Bible books except the Song of Solomon (also called Canticles) which has much positive marital imagery out of line with the Gov Body’s views of what is “holy.” Instructed to keep such things "in-house" when asked most elders deny the 1983-onwards policy in order to protect the Governing Body.

    All who put God foremost remember it's best to worship and do His will, and Christ is the Most faithful, discrete slave, not an unrepentant Governing Body of men in Brooklyn. This isn’t an attack on “JWs” but the “Watchtower” misleadership over JWs who include our loved ones! Our loved ones are told they must not read this material if given it by hand, but when e/mailed it most do quietly read it, some exit, most feel angry at first then quietly decrease donations to the WTS etc. Please make and share copies of this.

  • jayhawk1
    jayhawk1

    Wow, I can't believe people actually agree with me. Maybe going on vacation is what I needed.

    Bang, regarding what you said, you might be right, but JWs that I know love debating irrelevant topics. For some twisted reason, they think they are debating biblical "meat". For instance, I got into a debate as a JW about if Jehovah will or will not use a person's old body to resurrect somebody. And yes, it was a hotly debated subject. Again, you might be right, but I just speak from the experience of being there and doing that.

    "Hand me that whiskey, I need to consult the spirit."-J.F. Rutherford

    Jeremy's Hate Mail Hall Of Fame.
    http://hometown.aol.com/onjehovahside/ and [email protected]

  • Lee Elder
    Lee Elder

    Nicolas,

    I believe it can be helpful to consider what your motivation is for helping your sister to leave the WTS? When viewing her circumstances, do you sincerely believe that it is in her best interest to leave the WTS as this time? If you were successful in convincing her to leave, are you prepared to make a substantial contribution of your time to provide the emotional support she will require during recovery?

    If the answer to these questions is yes, then you should begin a dialogue with her on those issues you believe she would be the most sensitive to.

    Lee

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