The cost of going undercover to help family and friends - Is it worth it?

by BonaFide 44 Replies latest jw friends

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  reniaa

  I told them I was on this site but your right deceit of any kind only comes back on the deceiver.

  The tactics you are preposing though bonafide are ones that involve other people and with mine any consequences are only on me by posting on here. You take great risks in lying to family and friends but also you are being actively apostate in this by using a method directly involving trying to get people to get out of the Jw's hense why I put my second scripture.

  To be honest I see nothing here worth bragging about when witnesses go on doors it is open and honest you maybe critical of them but you have all their wt's to read in front of you their beliefs and doctrines are not hidden. Too use such underhand methods is not something to be proud of.

  And if you succeed and destroy a person's belief in their God and they are unable to cope with it as I know at least one person on this forum has found out can you live with that? destroying their hope in God? I admire People in other religions more than this because they at least seek to replace faith with another, not self-serving deceit leaving the person without their faith at the end of it.

  Yes my words are hard but I refuse to "tickle your ears" as others have done you are going into risky waters by trying to influence other people by lies but it is still your choice.

  this type of thread proves the witness view of apostasy more than any other I've seen since you are premoting a type deception that makes all there warnings quite to the point.

  You have left the witnesses and have now become deceitful, dehonest, making decisions for others without their knowledge but they bear the consequences if you succeed. Yes this new life you chose is the honourable one? No. If this is what being an apostate involves you can keep it.
• 

  boyzone

  To be honest I see nothing here worth bragging about when witnesses go on doors it is open and honest you maybe critical of them but you have all their wt's to read in front of you their beliefs and doctrines are not hidden. Too use such underhand methods is not something to be proud of.

  Th thing is Reniaa, YOU are not allowed to read ALL the WT's and the older beliefs and doctrines you're discouraged from researching in any depth. You're certainly not permitted to understand the significance of the older doctrines and how they go against clear scritpural standards. Your hypocrisy here is appalling.

  The witnesses going door to door are NOT open and honest. Don't be silly here girl, your talking to old pro's here, not some wet-behind-the-ears novices. When was the last time you explained the shunning policy to a householder? Or when was the last time you told them upfront that you have to believe the GB were exclusively chosen by God in 1919? Or have you explained about all the shifting doctrines on blood, generation, superior authorities, date-setting etc, pedophile settlements etc. Or do you just give the rosy paradise earth picture. Open and honest?? You are kidding me.

  And if you succeed and destroy a person's belief in their God and they are unable to cope with it as I know at least one person on this forum has found out can you live with that? destroying their hope in God? I admire People in other religions more than this because they at least seek to replace faith with another, not self-serving deceit leaving the person without their faith at the end of it.

  Utter tripe. Destroying their faith in the Watchtower Society ISN'T destroying thier faith in God. In your mind the Society and God are one and the same, therefore you automatically equate one with the other. Therefore you can't have one without the other. Your remarks get sillier and sillier Reniaa, proving beyond doubt to all reading your words that you are in a mind control cult. Your silliness has done more for showing up the stupidity of the WT Society than probably most of the posts on this forum. Well done honey!
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  allelsefails

  reniaa - it is not honest to go to a door and tell people that you are not there to change their religion... that's exactly what JWs want to do. I don't know how "deceitful" JWs have to be to help people see the truth, but i'd like to give an example. My JW wife and I were having a discusion about salvation. I told her JWs teach that only JWs will be saved at Armageddon. She said she never was taught that and doesn't beieve it. She told me she never saw that in the "Live Forever Book". Of course it is on page 255! At the very end it says this: "You must be part of Jehovah’s organization, doing God’s will, in order to receive his blessing of everlasting life." She is very open minded, but can't see the dishonesty in such teaching. Not to mention the actual lies that have been told: Greek word for temple (Naos vs. hieron), UN NGO, and misquoting themselves. Ask to see a copy of WT charter without (...)(skipped words) or [through](added word)and you'll see they worship Jesus, but disfellowship people for worshipping Jesus. My studies have led me to the one truth JWs uncovered: Religion is a Snare and a Racket. All of them. Faith in God does not require religion. It requires the right heart. Keep asking questions - the TRUTH will set you free.
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  reniaa

  The sort of attacking justifications I expected boyzone! if someone on the door asked me about disfellowshipping and it's consequences I would be quite open about it but I am not falling into the trap of being defensive about my openly going on door to doors and since what is discussed is usually at the householders questions.

  Can I ask do you own the handy CD that Jw's produced with all the back issues and publications on? it's a favourite of the apostates for researching old wt's although they rarely quote full articles only edited snippets of what they want to apply. this CD proves the Jw's discourage research and looking at back issues? erm a bit foolish of them to make it don't you think? if they wanted to hide these wt's?

  I recognise this is the only defense you have for premoting the type of lies and deception bonafide puts on the table but it is a weak one and shows how far down the road you have travelled.

  The saddest thread I read on this forum recently is someones complete loss of faith in God since they left Jw's that they now cannot understand human suffering, it was sad and hopeless, yet you think this is better? You guys wants this for your families?

  Take care

  I hope bonafide changes his mind but I have said my peace on this, the deep deception of these type are not condoned by God

  Psalm 36:3
  The words of his mouth are wicked and deceitful; he has ceased to be wise and to do good.

  Psalm 101:7
  No one who practices deceit will dwell in my house; no one who speaks falsely will stand in my presence.

  let Jehovah be the judge of who is being deceitful in his house.
• 

  WTWizard

  If you really have people in that you want out, this may work. However, if they took you away from anyone and everyone you ever cared enough about to give a fxxx about getting out while you were still active, chances are it will be of little or no good to go back to the cancer.

  Unless, that is, you have the technology to discreetly record part or all of the boasting session and post it somewhere online. Do that, and people will be able to see for themselves how outrageous they are. Do this in a boasting session where the Kool-Aid washtowels or the Circus Meeting is in progress, and you can point out how stupid and lifeless the comments are. Taking video footage can add to the somberness--discreetly taking videos of the congregation after the boasting session for YouTube, highlighting how somber and fake they are, can expose the witlesses as not being joyous.
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  carla

  I give you credit! Reminds of the book I have yet to get where the mom went undercover to get her daughter out of the jw's.

  Nevermind Reniaa, nothing like calling the kettle black coming from a psuedo jw who doesn't even know jw doctrines & history.

  I could never do what you are doing because as a non jw I had already let the cat out of the bag about the cult aspect of this dangerous and deadly cult. I could never sit there while they denigrate Christ the way they do either.

  As I have said before, the cost to you who have left and wish to leave is great. It is stories like these that non jw's just sit with their jaws dropping to the floor, meaning what jw's have to go through just to maintain relationships with family for having a different point of view. Or in some cases an ex jw merely wants to truly worship and learn about the Bible & God instead of the drivel that comes down from ungodly men in NY.

  Ironic that Reniaa finds holding jw's to live their doctrine is deceitful somehow and that's basically what you have been doing. In a recent post you had someone who seemed to veer ever so slightly from the hard line of the wt and you brought them back to what the wt says, made them think. It's always different when someone is actually watching you and holding you accountable. Something Reniaa knows nothing about or else she would not be here associating with known apostates and apostate ideas & literature.
• 

  Tuesday

  It's nice to have a purpose in life, I wouldn't trade shoes with you, but everyone is entitled to do what they want with their life. I wish my family were that important to me.
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  koolaid-man

  This subject always gets attention. In fact a book was written about it. The author, Nancy Sage, writes about how she went undercover to rescue her daughter from the "tentacles of the Watchtower". Her heroic and compelling story was told on the six screens of the Watchtower conference call on December 20,2008. To listen to her story, hit this link. http://sixscreensofthewatchtower.com/conferencecall-12-20-08.html
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  LUKEWARM

  Your efforts are noble indeed Bonafide!
  
  Our forefathers died fighting against oppression - died to give us the freedom we cherish so much today.
  
  Yet, without a single shot being fired, the WTS has succeeded in controlling the minds and actions of millions in the name of God - contrary to Christian freedom Christ advocated!
  
  A true friend will not hold back from endeavouring to open a closed mind - sometimes at great personal cost.
  
  What they choose to do after being aware of the real truth is their business - but the duty of care has been discharged
  
  Lukewarm
• 

  undercover

  Getting reinstated to re-establish family ties for the sake of family is one thing, ala Gumby, but getting reinstated to try to help get them out seems bass ackwards.

  If you're still in, as you are and you try some of your reverse psychology, that could very well help...but I personally wouldn't go back in order to try to free someone.

  First of all, if they won't listen to logic and reason now, what makes me think they will just because I show up at the KH? Second, they may not want to be freed...they might like being a JW even if you can show them that there are things wrong. I know of two people who admitted that "even if" the JWs were wrong, they like it. What's to save if they like it?

  At some point we have to just accept that we can't save everyone and we need to work on own recovery. If the oppurtunity presents itself to show them the real truth, sure, but I don't think it would be healthy to go back and subject yourself to that poison astmosphere in the slim hope of helping someone.