I think the belief that God will judge sinners is the most reasonable to believe because if he didn't he would be nothing more than an enabler of evil.
"Prepare to meet thy God"
Of all known religious beliefs which one seems most reasonable?
by The Berean 76 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Narkissos
Is it reasonable to expect religious beliefs to be reasonable?
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Perry
Which is more reasonable to believe:
The time/space/material universe came from nothing.
Or,
God will judge sinners.
These are the two ultimate religious paradigms that every thinking person must answer IMO.
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BluesBrother
"... it is the "Christian" nations that developed technology..."
Islamic scholars developed our system om mathematics and algebra.. The ancient pre christian world developed many things that we have today and buildings that still survive.
I cannot see that Christianity has aided technical progress, or that the message ever sought to do so.
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Witness 007
The Church of Fonzie is my current religion......I wear a leather jacket and tell everyone to "cool it"......may the Fonze be with you!
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gubberningbody
Perry, those are not the only two options. There are quite a number of others.
Narkissos, After pointing out the unreasonableness of some belief systems, one can go on to examine those who lay claim to reason in one form or anthor with regard to internal and external consistency. Again, it's not an either/or situation. It would be convenient if it were.
In general, out loud....
I've noticed that most people want to create straw men out of whatever system of belief they're opposed to while submitting at the same time that theirs is uniquely different.
Atheism, is a positive statement, and one which cannot be proven but perhaps induced if one cherry-picks and arranges the evidence.
Theism, is a positive statement, and one which cannot be proven but perhaps induced if one cherry-picks and arranges the evidence.
Agnosticism, is positive statement that the affairs of the above two systems are in fact the case as I've described them.
There are other ways to accept responsibility without relying on a "higher power" and be a theist, atheist or agnostic. Some might wonder how it is that a theist could ever do so, and yet the affairs of Abraham serve as an example of the same at least in suggestion w/regard to the Sodom & Gomorrah incident. There we see Abraham asking Jehovah "Is the God of all the earth NOT going to do what is RIGHT?" In his question, Abraham lays claim to his right to make moral judgments even of the creator. In this he was not condemned in the narrative, and later in the book of James he's referred to as "God's friend". Abraham did not defer his judgment to a "higher power" as many theists do. He took responsibility.
This is where I find myself. I consider that a theistic agnosticism with an emphasis on my personal right to judge what is or is not right as my right to choose and discover for myself.
I do not know that Adam was ever condemned for his actions. He certainly took responsibility to choose and decide and in this instance it seems that the only difference between Adam and Abraham was a conversation.
Was there a conversation with regard to Adam's suspicions that Jehovah was just going to take his wife and kill her because he, Jehovah had not managed his affairs so that this badness was allowed to take place?
Or was there no conversation?
Is or was it necessary that Adam inquire further of Jehovah?
Was Adam making a test of Jehovah's goodness in eating of the tree himself (as he was not deceived)? Was he saying in effect "Is the God of all the earth not going to do what is right? My wife was deceived! How was it that we were not warned that deceivers could come into our world to try to fool us with lies? I would never have done this myself. What? Would you have me stand idly by why my wife be executed before my eyes? No. If it must be, then we will both die. I cannot be a party to this."
I don't know.
I don't know if anything of this sort took place.
I take personal responsibility to judge that Jehovah simply cannot be as he has been depicted by any religions I've come to know, save the bare outline of that found in Universalism. This, of course I speak from an agnostic position.
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metatron
I think it is sad to see how political correctness has distorted this subject. Israel is said to have more scientists than the rest of the Arab world combined. After 9-11, an Egyptian editorial offered a rare moment of honesty in admitting that Muslim nations don't offer much of anything to technology, world literature or much else. It noted the Nobel prizes as an example.
What was different about Judeo-Christianity?
1) the idea that God created the physical world according to fixed laws. This was different from Islam and animist religions in which everything exists according to the immediate Will of God. How can you research physics if Allah gets a whim to change it tomorrow? This is also different from Far Eastern ideas about a nebulous Tao or 'Web that has No Weaver'. Although Einstein was not a strict Theist, he still followed the idea of Law in the universe, that it could be understood, that 'God does not play dice with the universe'.
The above does not answer the question 'is there a God?' but you need this sense of lawful order to get science going in a civilization!
2) The belief that suffering will be overcome by human effort. If suffering is eternal and inherent to our condition, why fight it? In studying Dzogchen practise, I noticed that they used the same argument as Jehovah's Witnesses against practical charity! It was 'we don't build hospitals because we offer enlightenment which is better!! Bullsh*t!
To get Turkey moving, the great Ataturk had to fight to remove the symbols and ideas of Eastern fatalism, which stood in the way of progress.
One day, - and possibly - soon - science will make the blind see and the lame walk and the deaf hear. They will extend human life greatly thru technology. They will do this BECAUSE Western society has a mythic vision from the Bible that inspired this society to do so. Our culture is such that we do not put our old people on ice floes or generally rely on prayer to cure illness.
We will prevail against the oldest and greatest causes of human suffering because of science - and our mythic religious inspiration.
metatron
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rebel8
What Is Secular Humanism?
Secular Humanism is a term which has come into use in the last thirty years to describe a world view with the following elements and principles:
- A conviction that dogmas, ideologies and traditions, whether religious, political or social, must be weighed and tested by each individual and not simply accepted on faith.
- Commitment to the use of critical reason, factual evidence, and scientific methods of inquiry, rather than faith and mysticism, in seeking solutions to human problems and answers to important human questions.
- A primary concern with fulfillment, growth, and creativity for both the individual and humankind in general.
- A constant search for objective truth, with the understanding that new knowledge and experience constantly alter our imperfect perception of it.
- A concern for this life and a commitment to making it meaningful through better understanding of ourselves, our history, our intellectual and artistic achievements, and the outlooks of those who differ from us.
- A search for viable individual, social and political principles of ethical conduct, judging them on their ability to enhance human well-being and individual responsibility.
- A conviction that with reason, an open marketplace of ideas, good will, and tolerance, progress can be made in building a better world for ourselves and our children.
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mouthy
What ever the faith you believe,, if it makes you do unto others
as you like to be done to you ,& if it makes you show love to even your enemies
in MY book ,If it makes you someone who can be trusted ,in my opinion
is O.K. But religion in My humble opinion causes nothing but trouble &
hatred. So I "aint" a religionist.... -
besty
interesting post metatron - religion as a passive enabler of evolution - the ultimate irony? :-) I hope so.