Sunday Public talk that talked about oral sex

by TooBad TooSad 304 Replies latest members adult

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    all I want is proof that this talk refered to anything other than courting couples encouraging them not to do fornication acts. and specifically refering to married couples with regards to sexual acts other than adultery and homosexuality.

    Btw in reference to what someone else said I think the gb while annointed are imperfect and so can be influenced by public opinion but their adherence to bible will stop them accepting widescale fornication as most Christian churches do now as I personally know from experience!

    If you want to say fornication is ok well that one you will have to prove to me biblically as well as with adultery and homosexuality.

    btw is the bible disgusting for mentioning these things?

  • mrsjones5
    mrsjones5

    So if me and my husband do anything else other than face to face missionary position we are fornicating? Good grief woman!

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    no mrsjones i'm not sure how you got that from what I wrote?

    I'm saying fornication is about sex acts outside of marriage and these articles will have been for courting couples. they may mention homosexuality acts and adultery as something married couple should avoid but recent articles to my knowledge keep what married couples do between them.

  • mrsjones5
    mrsjones5

    It always depends on who you talk to Reniaa. Some elders are more hardline than others. Some jws have been foolish enough to invite the brothers into their bedrooms. From what I understand from the folks on this forum who either still attend the meetings or their spouses attend the meetings, what kind of sexual acts married jws can do is still an issue no matter what the official partyline is.

  • PrimateDave
    PrimateDave

    Reniaa, if the Governing Body and "annointed" are imperfect, then no one should have to obey them.

    The December 15, 1969, Watchtower (pp. 765, 766) discussed sexual practices that went beyond simple genital copulation. Apparently, in the early 1970's, a California couple confessed to such practices and the matter was relayed to Brooklyn. According to the account by Ray Franz,

    Until the correspondence was read to us that morning, none of us aside from the president had had any opportunity to think about the subject. Yet within a couple of hours the decision was reached that the couple was subject to disfellowshiping. This was thereafter set out as a formal published policy, applicable to any persons engaging willfully in similar practices. (See the Watchtower, December 1, 1972, pp. 734-736; also November 15, 1972, pp. 703, 704.)

    ... The Governing Body's decision in 1972 resulted in a sizeable number of "judicial hearings" as elders followed up on reports or confessions of the sexual practices involved. Women experienced painful embarrassment in such hearings as they responded to the elders's questions about the intimacies of their marital relations.

    Franz relates that an "unprecedented volume of mail came in over a period of five years, most of it questioning the Scriptural basis for the Governing Body members inserting themselves into the private lives of others in such a way." For the most part Witnesses put an extraordinary amount of trust in these men to correctly interpret the Bible for them. Many wanted clarification about what was acceptable and what was not.

    When finally, after some five years, the matter came up again on the agenda, the disfellowshiping policy was reversed and the Governing Body in effect withdrew itself from that intimate area of others' lives. (See the Watchtower, February 15, 1978, pp. 30, 32.)

    The "liberal" period occurred between 1978 and 1983.

    Looking over the letters at hand, some of which have been presented, whatever satisfaction it brought to write that corrective material seems rather hollow. For I know that no matter what was said, it could never in any way compensate for or repair all the damage in embarrassment, mental confusion, emotional distress, guilt pangs, and broken marriages that resulted from the earlier decision-- a decision made in a few hours by men almost all of whom were approaching the matter cold, with no previous knowledge, thought , meditation, specific prayer on the matter or searching of Scriptures, but whose decision was nonetheless put in force globally for five years and affected many people for a lifetime. None of it needed ever to have occurred.

    From the footnote: A few years after my resignation from the Governing Body, the organization in effect reinstated basic elements of its earlier policy on "unnatural sex practices." The March 15, 1983, Watchtower (pages 30, 31), while stating that it was not up to elders to "police" the private marital matters of congregation members, nonetheless ruled that the advocacy or the practice of what was classed as "unnatural sex relations" among married persons not only would disqualify a man for eldership or other Society-appointed position but "could even lead to expulsion from the congregation." ... Whatever the case, this 1983 material did not produce the great surge of judicial hearings that accompanied the initial announcement of that poilcy in 1972, perhaps because that earlier experience had produced sufficient bad fruitage to restrain the zeal for inquiry on the part of elders. (From the book Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz)

    Suffice to say it is pretty common knowledge among most Witnesses I have known that oral and anal sexual practices are not permitted among married couples. There is no indication that the policy has been reversed since 1983. With regards to these matters being discussed in a Public Talk, I agree that it is beyond inappropriate and highly distasteful (no pun intended).

    Dave

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    hi primate you actually make my point if the most recent article you can find that actually states it is 40 years ago 1969 that is the point i'm trying to make. i'm pretty sure the Gb now stay out of the marriage bed although I think the bible agrees with them on on avoiding homosexual acts even with married couples.

    To be honest the gulf between those that avoid fornication before marriage and current public opinion is widening and they will soon be seen as weird on this point from the majority too. especially if christendom also allows fornication as a norm to be accepted as it does other unbiblical practices now.

    were the apostles perfect primate? were the first century disciples perfect? yet they were leaders! was paul perfect yet he made decisions?

    Romans 7:23
    but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members.

    If we cannot accept imperfection in our leaders you would have rejected paul and the apostles as well as leaders? the gb are not perfect and they haven't the holy spirit gifts the first century christians had access too.

    1 Corinthians 13:8-9 (New International Version)

    8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,

    but the principle of the following scripture still applies even if the majority of gifts have left us and that is why we still are blessed by following leaders.

    1 Corinthians 12:27-28 (New International Version)

    27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

    Corinthians 12:24-25 (New International Version)

    24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other.

    the bible makes it clear that walking this road alone is not what we should be doing we should be helping and guiding each other accepting the practicalities of being organised as a group even imperfection as it manifests. Isn't this why Paul had to give us so much advice! Doesn't the scriptures after the Gospels show in effect a people trying to come together in unity making decisions for the whole dealing with those that don't agree and people that just want to do/believe their own thing?

  • mrsjones5
    mrsjones5

    Whoever you want in bed with you Reniaa (boyfriend, husband, brothers, elders) is fine with me. I'm a christian who is married to a christian and we have yet to go running to our pastor to find out if any sexual acts done in our marriage bed is OK. I rather think my pastor would think I had lost it to even bring the subject up. Nor has our pastor ever gave a sermon concerning what sexual acts are OK in the marital bed. I think he has more important things to think and worry about.

    Josie

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    I agree with you mrs jones you are married! I'm just saying the gb are right to keep to the bible line against fornication acts with those who are unmarried and homosexuality acts being wrong as well as adultery, this is bible not just people on these. As to the rest between married couples it is now left between them...whatever was said in 1969 40 years ago!

  • mrsjones5
    mrsjones5

    i'm pretty sure the Gb now stay out of the marriage bed although I think the bible agrees with them on on avoiding homosexual acts even with married couples.

    You have a short memory Reniaa. Didn't you just say what is above? I'm not talking about fornication. I'm talking about the elders and the gb inserting themselves between a husband and wife concerning what said husband and wife do in bed.

    Rattle on about fornication among singles all you want, I'm talking about married couples.

  • mkr32208
    mkr32208

    My dad was removed as an elder for having oral sex with my mom (who he was and IS still married too...) Images in my head that even at 34 I don't need! ugh!

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