There is a world of difference between being disfellowshipped for fornication and disfellowshipped for apostasy. I can see them exercising some cautious leniency with the former,but definitely not the latter.
Is DISFELLOWSHIPPING being phased out?
by african GB Member 47 Replies latest jw friends
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apocryphal22
I think disfellowshipping will be reduced over time, but never phased out (ie Catholic Excommunication). I've seen entire congregations become discourged or even collapse if they are hit with too many disfellowshippings in a short period of time. I suspect the eventually a distinction will be made between personal weakness vs apostasy\opposer. This wouldn’t even be a change in teaching or "new light". Just a gradual shift in judicial policy. Over time new iterations of "marking" and "reproof" would probably be defined.
Quick story -
I went to an assembly at the Stanley Theater. Since I thought I was running late I rushed up to the mezzanine and sat down. I thought it had already started because everyone was sitting down and talking in hushed voices or not at all. But then I noticed everyone one on the lower level was still standing around, mingling, chatting, etc. After about ten minutes it started to feel surreal, something was different but I couldn’t put my finger on it. Eventually a sister saw me and came over to talk. After the usual greetings I quietly asked "Why is no one talking up here?". She whispered back "Your sitting in the disfellowshipped section, that’s what I came to tell you." I sat there dumbfounded. "What do mean? Its half the assembly?" to which she nonchalantly replied "This is the disfellowshipped convention." Somewhere in my haze she grabbed my arm and I ended up sitting somewhere else.
Apparently many disfellowshippped from the area had decided to attend the same convention. Sort of an informal solidarity. After thinking about this for a while I of course (being young and fearless) brought this up a few days later to a Bethel heavy. During the course of our conversation I mentioned that we know there is a heavenly class and an earthly class. Now that the disfellowshipped class is larger than the heavenly class, is there any chance the disfellowshipped class could become larger than the earthly class? At this point I was marked as the "smart ass" class. -
shopaholic
african GB,
This is not a new directive given to elders. This has been the society's stance for almost 10 years now. Disfellowshipping is to be the last resort and only the case when someone is defiantely unrepentent.
That is why you will see chronic adulters and fornicators not get disfellowshipped but publicly reproved. First-time offenders are often privately reproved. These folks, although not DF'd, are mostly shunned by the congregation. I actually know a few folks that asked to be DF'd because it would make their conscience feel better. Two were reinstated just a few months after being DF'd.
Nothing new here folks....same 'ol craziness.
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Scully
I think the only "phasing out" that's being done is the use of the term Disfellowship™.
They want to viewed as more mainstream, so it seems to me that they are now leaning toward a viewpoint that any Serious Wrongdoing™ constitutes a voluntary act of Disassociation™, or a deliberate choice demonstrating a person's wish to be No Longer One Of Jehovah's Witnesses™.
It keeps the Elders'™ jobs much more simple. No Judicial Committee™ meetings to coordinate. No need to track down an Inactive™ person or someone who's recently moved to the Territory™ in an attempt to fade. No need to follow Jesus' directive to seek out a "lost sheep" and try to bring them back to the fold. They can now simply rely on hearsay evidence from Two Eyewitnesses™ that so-and-so was seen doing XYZ, and voilà, you too can be announced as being No Longer One Of Jehovah's Witnesses™.
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observador
Both the criteria and handling of disfellowshipping has evolved in the past what? 15/20 years.
Up to about the early 90s, if someone was found to have fornicated/adulterated/insert here any other sexual sin, that person would almost certainly be disfellowshipped. After about that time, though, the person is disfellowshipped if he/she doesn't show signs of repentence.
"signs of repentence" basically means crying. Just cry your hearts off and will get away with it, which is very interesting because if someone is skilled enough on acting, he/she will do well.
The average JW doesn't notice this type of subtle doctrinal change, mostly because the WT is highly skilled in the art of dilluting changes to give the appearance that nothing at all have changed.
Obs
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Farkel
:I wonder if the Witnesses got rid of disfellowshipping if the ex-JW community would disintegrate.
Yes, you are right. I've stated many times that if institutional shunning was ever dropped, nothing else would matter to me. Think about it. If their was no shunning, dubs wouldn't have to swallow any WTS crap, including the most important piece of crap: "the GB speaks for God." They could still stay dubs and believe the stuff they think is important and disregard the stuff they think is bullshit. Or they could just walk away and not lose all friends and family.
Once institutional-mandated shunning is gone, the religious leaders will lose all enforced power over their members. For that reason, DFing will likely always be a part of the religion in one way or another, or with one name or another.
Currently DFing and DAing are distinctions without a difference. Either they kick you out or you leave on your own, but you are vilified in exactly the same way, whatever name they choose to call it.
Farkel
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steve2
As some posters have said, for someyears, greater "mercy" has been shown towards sins of the flesh (to use this quaint term) than the sin of apostasy. I can recall even inthe 1980s the same witnesses who were reproved 3 or more times for such sins as fornication or drunkeness - but who showed enough repentance to avoid being disfellowshipped. By contrast, those accused of apostasy get a rougher time - and that makes sense: Apostasy cuts at the heart of a religion's claimed authority to govern and direct its members lives. Icannot imagine the Watchtower ever easing up on that.
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Hobo Ken
While I was still a dub my wife DA'd but would probably have been booted for " apostasy" soon enough because the elders had heard her outspoken views.
One of the most prominent elders in the country told me that she was actually worse than an adulterer because she left. I asked if it was sin NOT to be a JW to which he replied yes! so the "sin" of apostasy will always be the worst and will always require punishment, otherwise you have no control over information getting to the R and F, which would in turn destroy the organisation.