JW’s & Atheists - Great (Cultic) Minds Think Alike

by Perry 141 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Perry

    C'mon, I've answered alot of questions.

    Isn't anyone going to defend the wonderful virtues of atheism? I mean it cost you your whole brain to believe in this stuff. That's a pretty big price. The least you could do is explain how it would be good for me and others.

    Won't anyone please describe the goodness of it?

  • nicolaou


    This is just a simple attempt to show you the flaw in your 'fine tuning' argument.

    You quote many impressive stats on the nature of certain values within the Universe and then make the comment that; "These numbers represent the maximum deviation from the accepted values, that would either prevent the universe from existing now, not having matter, or be unsuitable for any form of life."

    Fine. let's assume your statistics are correct, the question is whether your conclusion naturally follows.

    Let's use a nice simple triangle to represent the Universe. Doesn't matter if it's an equilateral, isosceles, scalene or right angle triangle - the combined total value of the three angles contained within it will always total 180°.

    Could you (or God) create a triangle with values that are any different? Even by a fraction of 1 degree? NO! That could very well be how the Universe is. There are no values that are finely tuned - they simply could not be any other way!

    The value of Pi is another good example.

    Open your mind Perry.

  • Hittman

    A major theme in atheist thought is that the general population (99.3%) simply misunderstands them

    You're managing to pack a huge amount of stupidity in just a few words. The first time you posted that ridiculous number we could have written it off to ignorance, but now that you've been corrected and keep repeating it, stupidity is the only possible explination.

    And, as also has been explained to you, there is but one theme in atheist thought – there is not sky daddy. That's it. No other dogma, no other fundamentals, no nothin'.

    The only thing more boring than a dictionary argument is a dictionary argument by someone who doesn't understand basic definitions.

    Where do I begin?
    I would suggest by selling everything you own and using the proceeds to buy a clue.

    Tuesday, I am teaching a class right now on Bible Cults as a matter of fact.

    Make sure you cover Fundamentalism.

    C'mon, I've answered alot of questions.

    No, actually, you haven't. How about you tackle an easy one – prove, using logic and reason (not your genocidal holy book) that the universe wasn't created by the FSM.

    Won't anyone please describe the goodness of it?

    Percent of atheists in the general population: 10-15.
    Percent of atheists in prison populations: .02

  • Mastodon

    Won't anyone please describe the goodness of it?

    Not being a sucker for Fairy Tales, for one. :)

    Being able to think freely

    Being able to take resposibility for my own actions

    Not condemning people to 'hell'/destruction because they don't 'believe' as I do

    Being free from Bible/Religion induced fears and superstitions

    Not butting into people's lives to tell them how to live their lives

    Being able to see and appreciate people without the distorting lense of the Scriptures

    Helping and loving people because I want to, not because an archaic book tells me I HAVE to

    In other words, freedom. A kind of freedom that fundamentalist fanatics will never know, no matter what the storybook says.

  • undercover

    When a person becomes "born again" he know longer wonders if God exists. Before that, even as a "Christian", a person may suspect, deduce, believe,... that God exists; but it is only in the re-birth that there is a knowing. Further, if a person doesn't have this "knowing" he is not a child of God plain and simple.

    What's the difference in that belief and the belief that the annointed members of the 144,000 "know" they are of the chosen?

    How can one ridicule JWs for their Memorial beliefs and doctrines, then spout this for proof of a god?

  • AllTimeJeff
    Isn't anyone going to defend the wonderful virtues of atheism? I mean it cost you your whole brain to believe in this stuff. That's a pretty big price. The least you could do is explain how it would be good for me and others. Won't anyone please describe the goodness of it?

    Perry, this whole article is sad to me. It really is. I would say the goodness of atheism (which is a lack of belief in god due to a lack of evidence) lies in its roots of intellectual honesty. No one is disallowing the possibility of god/higher power.

    Perry, the minute you are able to produce evidence for your beliefs and the existence of your god, I make you a promise, I will believe as you do. Once I have the evidence. Testable, and verifiable evidence.

    Until then, count me in the atheist's corner in this discussion.

    The problems with an atheist/theist argument like this is the parameter, metrics, and standards of evidence in play. Clearly in this case, we are not debating evidence, but defending a set of untestable beliefs while attacking anothers lack of belief.

    Perry, it will always be your perrogative to believe in Jesus, his ransom sacrifice and the New Covenant. You have also in earlier posts described "personal" contact you ascribe to your god. And, it is also your perrogative to bring up subjects like this in the context you have chosen. In all of this, I have zero desire to dissuade you, thought I vigorously believe you are wrong.

    I say that to be somewhat concilliatory. Yet, at the same time, just because you say it, doesn't mean its true. Atheists are not cult like, and do not suffer from cognitive dissonance. Sorry....

    On this and another thread you have started, you maintain that Atheists suffer from Cognitive Dissonance and are cult like. To charecterize your statements could be rude, so I will simply say that this premise is wrong and discredited. You personally might disagree with atheists, as I do you. But I don't call your beliefs cultic, because they aren't. They are simply your beliefs.

    What is somewhat amusing is how you have attempted to tie loose scientific and psychological tenents to your efforts to prove your god exists. I will let the reader judge for themselves that atheists, who have no physical evidence of Jesus as god (I specifically use your god in this) are as you maintain, refusing to see and worship Jesus because they refuse to consider the evidence.

    Without real evidence, there can be no cognitive dissonance, no matter what definition any of us here uses. So I will leave off by saying, if I am a cultic non believer suffering from cognitive dissonance, what evidence would you have me consider? And does the evidence that you present, does it have a personality attached to it? Could another religion/god claim it as easily as "Jesus" could?

    I actually don't expect you to answer this, as it appears you have set off a buzzhive. You can only answer so many questions, I understand that. I perceive that, in my opinion, you are attacking the atheist position because you feel you should. I know many Christians, (non JW's) who would totally disagree with your premise. That should be noted.

    I personally reject your premise, because your data is neither testable or verifiable. Nonetheless, I acknowledge and celebrate your right to believe that all atheists are cultic.


  • Mastodon

    After that post by AllTimeJeff, this topic should be closed.

  • leavingwt

    Hittman, FTW!

  • Elsewhere
    The doctrine of Sanctification provides a lot of "measurable" properties for the believer as he interacts with God and becomes more and more like the perfect Son

    All of the behavioral changes described could be credited to influence by the Flying Spaghetti Monster or any other deity, not just the deity you are interested in. How does one go about identifying the specific deity responsible without actually measuring the deity itself and its interaction with the people it is supposed to be influencing?

    Just as an electronics engineer can monitor and measure the signals used to communicate with and influence the behavior of a cell phone, someone should also be able to intercept and measure any means of communicating with and influencing a human.

    I want to know what that means of communication is and how it can be intercepted and measured.

  • Mastodon

    Elsewhere, you should come down to San Anto, I can get some... err... 'stuff' that will make you see 'God'!

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