quietlyleaving, Your explanation about the Trinity is completely correct. Well, my explanation about the Trinity is the view of the major Protestant churches in Japan. |
thank you possible san.
NWT & KIT Prove Jesus IS Jehovah!
by PanzerZauberei 72 Replies latest watchtower bible
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quietlyleaving
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lurk3r
not the same numerically or in personality but are one in substance
Thanks for that quietly leaving. Could you please elaborate on that some more, to further your point for me? Please.
lurk3r
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truthlover
Back again Chalam /Stephen-
You quote John 1 where the word was WITH God, He was WITH God in the beginning --- so using the word WITH indicates two separate and distinct entities just like you are WITH me... you can be BY yourself or WITH someone, since we know the word was Jesus, he was the one who was WITH God, Jehovah or Yahweh... two, of the same mind, the same kind, the same in all respects, yet one Almighty and one lesser spirit creation. Nothing to do with a trinity, however that crept in..
Can you sit at your right hand? Can you pass something to someone if you are one and the same?? Logic dictates,No you cant.. and yes we are mere humans who really are taking a lot of the Bible at face value, but in all, through Jesus is our hope, he is the only mediator between God and mankind..so if Jesus were Jehovah, why a mediator?
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quietlyleaving
not the same numerically or in personality but are one in substance
Thanks for that quietly leaving. Could you please elaborate on that some more, to further your point for me? Please.
lurk3r
I think the term haecceity holds the key. If you look it up, you can see whether that makes the concept of the trinity clearer to you and whether or not it has any relevance to your thinking.
here is a link from wiki
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Chalam
Hi truthlover,
Let me try and answer your questions.
Can you sit at your right hand?
No, not in the physical sense. However, is God in any way limited?
The first part of my answer might seem strange but I believe the biblical teaching that I am made in God's image, with a body, soul and spirit.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 (New International Version)
23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Can you pass something to someone if you are one and the same??
A little more on the explanation above. These are important verses.
2 Corinthians 5:6-8 (New International Version)
6 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7 We live by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
Luke 23:43 (New International Version)
43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
2 Corinthians 12:2-3 (New International Version)
2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. 3 And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows—
Considering the first two texts, it follows that the man in the last verses was likely in heaven in his spirit, not body. Either way, Jesus' body was in the tomb and Paul says to be absent from the body is to be present with God. So once we die our spirits leave our body and go somewhere else. Thereafter, one day our spirits are reunited with the body i.e. at the resurrection of the dead. Paul explains all here and more.
Logic dictates,No you cant.. and yes we are mere humans who really are taking a lot of the Bible at face value, but in all, through Jesus is our hope, he is the only mediator between God and mankind..so if Jesus were Jehovah, why a mediator?
OK. We this is what the bible says.
God made man, alive in every sense and immortal. Unfortunately, Adam sinned and died spiritually (was separated from God) and also later, physically. We are in the same predicament. God sent the law to teach us what sin is-killing, stealing, lying etc. However, following the law of sin and sacrifice cannot save us. That was not a failing but God's plan from the beginning. God sent the sacrifice for every sin of mankind in the whole of history to pay the penalty for our sin and make a way possible through Jesus. How was Jesus good enough a sacrifice to do that?
Mark 10:18 (New International Version)
18 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone.
Luke 18:19 (New International Version)
19 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone.
Jesus was more that what we consider good. I call my children "good" but they aren't always! However, Jesus was without sin and of course, Jesus is hinting at His deity once again.
OK, what do we have to do to have our sins paid for and be reconciled with God and shielded from His justice (everlasting death)? Take the free gift, be born again and come spiritually alive. Jesus is our advocate in regard to our sin and the penalty we deserve.
Anyhow, I hope this helps.
All the best,
Stephen
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possible-san
Hi, truthlover.
Even if you ask the Trinity to the person who does not understand correctly, I think that you only receive a strange answer.
John 1:1 shows that Jesus is not Jehovah.
That is, "the Son" is not "the Father."
That doctrine is simple.possible
http://bb2.atbb.jp/possible/ -
sacolton
I agree. The Son is not the Father. So, how did Abraham and Jacob see Jehovah?
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Chalam
Hi,
Did anybody try reading this?
Trinity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The opening text helps a lot.
In Christian doctrine, the Trinity is the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead. [ 1 ] The doctrine states that Godis the Triune God, existing as three persons, or in the Greek hypostases, [ 2 ] but one being. [ 3 ] Each of the persons is understood as having the one identical essence or nature, not merely similar natures.
All the best,
Stephen
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possible-san
sacolton,
agree. The Son is not the Father. So, how did Abraham and Jacob see Jehovah?
I cannot think that your question is sincere.
(Literally, Abraham cannot invite Jehovah to a meal.)
And I think that it is better to show "to whom" (name) you wrote.Originally, I interpret the Scriptures entirely "symbolically" and "figuratively."
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/171230/6/Is-Jesus-Jehovahhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3M6cboaOKk&fmt=18
I leave the explanation about it to other persons.
possible
http://bb2.atbb.jp/possible/ -
Black Sheep
Hi Stephen and Possible and everyone else who has been following this.
When I am discussing the Trinity, I use this as my definition.
"Within the unity of the One God there are three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; and these three share the same Nature and attributes. In effect then, the three Persons are the One God."
I have never had anyone dispute that this is a good definition of the Trinity.
As far as I can make out, it does not contradict the notion that Jesus is Jehovah.
Will someone please explain why my (borrowed) definition is faulty.
Thanks
Chris