Is Jesus Jehovah?

by lostsheep82 144 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • lostsheep82
    lostsheep82

    I'm watching some youtube video's from newagegamer3018. Before in my research...I watched some of his video's when he was a JW apoligist. Now he has DA'd himself and is defending the scriptures, not JW's.

    This is the first time ever that I actually am starting to think/beleive that Jesus and Jehovah are the same thing. He makes many good points. Now the only question I have that always sticks with me, and my mom throws this at me and I never know how to answer, is this. When Jesus was on earth and prayed to his father, who the heck did he pray to IF he was indeed God/Jehovah? When he cried and sweat blood, who was he praying to??? Himself?

    Is it possible for Jehovah to be in heavens as spirit, yet on earth as Jesus at the same time?
    Maybe I'm out to left field here but I need help understanding this. It confuses me.

    Some honest help would be appreciated.

    Thanks,

  • keyser soze
    keyser soze

    I've never heard the argument from trinitarians that Jesus is actually Jehovah. This is the simplistic way in which JWs define the trinity. Most trinitarians I know believe that the father(Jehovah) and the son(Jesus) are two equal, but separate entities of the same Godhead, though admittedly my own knowledge of the subject is limited.

  • Priest73
    Priest73

    According to American Theologian Kevin Smith, God frequents New Jersey (Atlantic City to be specific.) He has a penchant for skee ball it seems.

    He makes no reference to Jesus.

  • sacolton
    sacolton

    Yes, Jehovah is the pre-incarnate of Jesus. He is NOT the Father. No one has seen the Father. Abraham spoke face to face with Jehovah (not possible if Jehovah is the Father). Jacob wrestled with Jehovah. Again, not possible if Jehovah is the Father.

  • MadGiant
    MadGiant

    I don’t get it either, but maybe this will help.

    Another Look at the Trinity

    The Trinity can be a difficult concept to understand. Some think it is a logical contradiction. Others call it a mystery. Does the Bible teach it? Yes it does, but that doesn't automatically make it easier to comprehend.
    The Trinity is defined as one God who exists in three eternal, simultaneous, and distinct persons known as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Such a definition may suffice for some, but for others this explanation is insufficient.
    Therefore, to help understand the Trinity better, I offer the following analogy that, I think, is hinted at in Rom. 1:20: "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made."

    Notice that this verse says God's attributes, power, and nature, can be clearly seen in creation. What does that mean? Should we be able to learn about God's attributes, power, and nature by looking at what He has made? Apparently, according to the Bible, this is possible.

    When a painter paints a picture, what is in him is reflected in the painting he produces. When a sculptor creates a work of art, it is from his heart and mind that the source of the sculpture is born. The work is shaped by his creative ability. The creators of art leave their marks, something that is their own, something that reflects what they are. Is this the same with God? Has God left His fingerprints on creation? Of course He has.


    As the Trinitarian doctrine maintains, each of the persons of the Godhead is distinct, yet they are all each, by nature, God.
    With time, for example, the past is distinct from the present, which is distinct from the future. Each is simultaneous. Yet, they are not three 'times,' but one. That is, they all share the same nature: time
    With space, height is distinct from width, which is distinct from depth, which is distinct from height. Yet, they are not three 'spaces,' but one. That is, they all share the same nature: space.
    With matter, solid is not the same as liquid, which is not the same as gas, which is not the same as solid. Yet, they are not three 'matters,' but one. That is, they all share the same nature: matter.

    Note that there are three sets of threes. In other words, there is a trinity of trinities. If we were to look at the universe and notice these qualities within it, is it fair to say that these are the fingerprints of God upon His creation? I think so. Not only is this simply an observation, but it is also a good source for an analogy of the Trinity.

    A Criticism of Trinitarianism

    Some critiques of the Trinitarian doctrine say that the Trinity is really teaching three gods, not one. They will say that God the Father, and God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit would make three gods, since the Father plus the Son plus the Holy Spirit would make three. But this is not a logical necessity. Instead of adding, why not multiply? One times one times one equals one. Why must addition be the criteria by which the doctrine is judged? It need not be. Rather, the doctrine should stand or fall based upon biblical revelation, not human logic. Nevertheless, let me draw an analogy from creation itself to illustrate the doctrine of the Trinity.
    An Analogy of the Trinity

    To continue with the observation about the Trinitarian nature of creation, I would like to use 'time' to illustrate the Trinity. Is the "past" plus the "present" plus the "future" a total of three times? Not at all. It simply is a representation of three distinct aspects of the nature of time: past, present, and future. Likewise, the Father and the Son and Holy Spirit are not three separate beings or entities, but three distinct persons in the one nature of the Godhead.

    One more comment about Jesus. All cults deny that Jesus is God, the creator of the universe, in flesh. Various objections are raised saying that Jesus could not be God, otherwise, He would be praying to Himself, etc. Let's work with the analogy above, and continue with 'time' as our illustration.

    Let's take 'present' and add to it human nature. Present, then, would have two natures: time and man. If 'present' were truly human then he would be able to communicate with us, tell us much, and we could see and touch him. But, because he is also 'time' by nature, he would be able to tell us both the past and the future as he manifested the 'time' nature within him. If 'present' then, communicated with the past and the future, it would not mean he was communicating with himself, but with the distinctions known as the past and the future.

    I know that this is only an analogy. But I think it is a good, though basic, illustration of God's nature as expressed in Trinitarian expression.

    http://www.carm.org/doctrine/trinity.htm

    http://www.carm.org/doctrine/trin_against.htm

    http://www.carm.org/doctrine/whatisthetrinity.htm


    Take care,
    Ismael

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    Yes, jehovah, or Yahweh is the name of the Divine Being- in which 3 person exist. You and I are also a being, in which only one person can exist. Jesus is the person of Jehovah who was revealed to us in the flesh. Yes, they are three separate persons, with distinct role BUT they are one spiritual flesh sharing the same Divine nature..just as husband and wife are one spiritual flesh-sharing the same nature as humans...

  • possible-san
    possible-san

    Please look at my remark in the following thread.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/169136/1/Jesus-Is-Jehovah-Jehovah-Is-Jesus

    The view "Jehovah is Jesus" is not true "Trinity."
    Also in the Trinity theory, Jesus Christ (the Son) was praying to Jehovah (the Father).

    possible
    http://godpresencewithin.web.fc2.com/

  • Priest73
    Priest73

    I liked my answer better. Skee ball is tangible. Imaginary friends are not.

  • Priest73
    Priest73

    Oops. Wrong thread. gotta stop drinking on the job.

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    Jacob wrestled with Jehovah. Again, not possible if Jehovah is the Father. Great point I had never thought of SACOLTON

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