Doctrinal ramifications of large increase in 2008 memorial partakers?

by yadda yadda 2 80 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  mcsemike

  Years ago, it became evident that the JW's alive today who said they were anointed, plus the "anointed" that the WT insists existed for the past 2,000 years, totalled way more than 144k. They then started to say that just because 300,000 first century Christians claimed to be anointed doesn't mean they were. This was their feeble attempt to keep the numbers down. They couldn't ignore the numbers in this time period, so they said that the numbers from the past were not accurate.

  Aside from the colossal arrogance of the WTS judging people whom the apostles possibly "laid their hands on" or were in good standing then, they are faced with a mathematical contradiction. The first century plus the hundreds or thousands that must have existed throughout the Dark Ages, added to today's figures, totals (according to some historians and I don't recall where I saw it) into the millions. The WTS has painted themselves into a corner that NO ONE can get out of.

  I just wish that those weasels would just admit they don't know a god damn thing about any god or the Bible. They already do enough damage in the world without lying in this area. I wouldn't be surprised if some day it became a disfellowshipping offense to claim to be anointed unless they approved. Like they "own" God and the Bible. I think they view God as a pet of some sort and when it's hungry or whatever, only the GB can interpret what the pet needs. Idiots.
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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  Of all the GB, Losch was the most defensive about the "young anointed" on the Governing Badly. I think he really got his shorts in a knot a few years ago when the articles were talking about the "emotionally unstable" partaking unworthily. He was very much of the "we're anointed if we say we're anointed" mentality. It would get really worked up about the subject. I was surprised that they didn't stick with the "we're just replacing the unfaithful anointed". Instead, they opened the door really wide for accepting new partakers.

  So, what to do now? Well, they already played the "emotionally unstable" partakers card, which resulted in an increase. They could say it isn't a literal number, in which case they'd have to throw out all their current publications... again. Or, perhaps they'll explain that many of the resurrected anointed have proven unfaithful under post-resurrection heavenly testing. It fits with their usual OT examples. Saul was anointed king, began ruling, proved unrighteous, was replaced by David. And they could probably rework some Revelation nonsense to Satan testing the resurrected and many failing. So, there have been probably millions who got to heaven, but hated it up there and have switched to Satan's side. So, new ones are called, die, resurrected, unfaithful, replaced... this could go on for centuries. Sure, it's a stupid notion that only fools would buy, but that hasn't stopped Botchtower, Inc. before.

  B the X
• 

  moshe

  I have a feeling that a whole bunch of JW's have a little niggling doubt about this whole annointed business. Of course they would deny it, but at night when they are lying awake in bed the doubts begin to creep in.
• 

  yadda yadda 2

  They had painted themselves into a corner with their "1935 cutoff" doctrine. It was painfully obvious to even the most credulous believers that something was dreadfully wrong - were that really that many unfaithful anointed in years past that needed "replacing"? So they were forced to take drastic action, and hope things would shake out well.

  I don't think they are baffled by the numbers either - but I think they were hoping it would not have been such a huge increase. Now, they will have to react and try to control the genie they have unleashed.

  I don't think they have any sort of "doctrinal strategy". The only strategic moves that I've seen over the past 20 years have been attempts to limit legal liability and increase micromanaging control. Doctrine doesn't present any monetary risk for them - so it only changes when circumstances force them to do so (dropping of 1914 generation, dropping of 1935, etc.).

  I see a couple of reactionary doctrinal changes that they can pull out in the future if/when the number grows embarrassingly large: (1) the 144K is a figurative number only, representing an "unnumbered little flock", or (2) there's a secondary heavenly class, anointed & going to heaven but not part of the "faithful & discreet slave".

  Or, alternatively, they could just stop publishing the number of partakers. The dropping of the monthly field service report from the KM could be a precursor of that.

  Good post. Absolutely agree with all your points, although I do not see the (2) option as very realistic, but (1) and your last point are definitely on the cards. And I don't think they have any doctrinal strategy either; their strategy is completely reactive and organisation-centric (since they are the only true religion and Jehovah only works through them), revolving entirely around trends and factors happening in and affecting the organisation...never simply because they have researched something for its own sake and realise they have messed up on a purely scriptural basis. If the numbers of the anointed keep increasing like this, they will take this as some kind of 'evidence' of Jehovah's 'celestial chariot' moving and react accordingly with minor tweakings of doctrine.

  I think they will also react doctrinally if these massive increases continue because to not do so could be seen by some of the GB as ignoring the evidence of the holy spirit anointing many new ones (even though many or all may be deluded or fruitcakes). To ignore this may be seen as not hearing what the holy spirit is trying to say to the organisation or even committing the unforgiveable sin (eg, pharisees dismissed Jesus even though it was evident the holy spirit was operative on him).
• 

  ninja

  time is unravelling their tightly knit structure....stitch by stitch
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  dozy

  I don’t think the WTS will be too worried. The number of partakers has pretty much flat-lined for the last 30 years without any repercussions. The recent increase can wholly be attributed to a blip following the 2007 “scrapping 1935” article.

  The fact is that every JW is conditioned to believe that they have an earthly hope - from the initial introduction through numerous articles warning against “partaking unworthily“ & the memorial talk itself which focuses on the fact that most will not partake. As we know , Jws don’t tend to think “out of the box” and I just can’t think that there will be a sea-change of thought amongst Jws , in discord with the FADS , which leads to many more thinking that they are “anointed”.

  There is a huge difference between 10K and 144K. I think that the WTS can sustain this doctrine comfortably while partakers stay below 20,000.
• 

  still_in74

  and she said that shows how much Jehovah cares for us, she said that is so, so wonderful, and she started to cry.
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  yadda yadda 2

  You're probably right dozy. If we see these kinds of increases up until 2014/15 that pushes the number of partakers up to 15-20k then some reasonably significant doctrinal changes might happen around then. Meantime, don't hold your breath.
• 

  insearchoftruth

  I asked my wife, who is studying, why the number of remnant anointed is increasing....of course she said it is not.......left it at that, but got her thinking I hope.
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  insearchoftruth

  Another good bttt