Doctrinal ramifications of large increase in 2008 memorial partakers?

by yadda yadda 2 80 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  undercover

  If this trend of big increases in partakers continues, do you think the Society will be forced to revisit whether the 144k is a literal or symbolic number?

  I don't know why they even publish the correct numbers. Why not just give a bogus number that makes it look like everything is proceeding according to prophecy?

  The only thing I can figure is that, in addition to the change of the doctrine about heaven closing/not closing in 1935, more big changes may be coming. By allowing just enough inconsistent information (this and other damning information) that causes a percentage of followers to question and maybe fall away, it clears out any possible troublemakers that would question any new changes to doctrine later.

  Once they've shaken out the non-believers they can introduce big new changes and the majority will drink their Kool-Aid without question. The few that may wake up and realize the sham of it all will be minor enough so as to not create a major exodus.
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  slimboyfat

  I don't know why they even publish the correct numbers. Why not just give a bogus number that makes it look like everything is proceeding according to prophecy?

  Because contrary to popular apostate opinion the leaders of the religion actually believe in it themselves? They are probably as baffled and concerned about the increase in the anointed as ordinary members are.
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  Trevor Scott

  I don't know why they even publish the correct numbers. Why not just give a bogus number that makes it look like everything is proceeding according to prophecy?

  But how long can they continue to publish an artificial decrease? Those who were teenagers in 1935 are now around 90 years old...

  I personally don't believe the Society is publishing the correct numbers even now. This is a liar organization, it's been proven again and again. I think the (artificial) increase is just a way for the Society to drop the 1935 heavenly calling cutoff doctrine. The "1935 generation" has been stretched about as thinly as the "1914 generation" was when they dumped that. By publishing an increase, the Society can point to it as "evidence" that the heavenly calling did not end in 1935 as previously thought:

  *** w07 5/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***

  as time has gone by, some Christians baptized after 1935 have had witness borne to them that they have the heavenly hope. (Romans 8:16, 17) Thus, it appears that we cannot set a specific date for when the calling of Christians to the heavenly hope ends.
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  hamsterbait

  The rate of death among the annointed is way above the demographic average for a group that size.

  The numbers dying is around 5% per annum, as opposed to around 2 - 3%

  In REAL terms they have been growing exponentially since 1935. In 1937 there was an increase of over 11 000!!

  The quick fix pulled out of the hat by that weazel faced Freddie of two classes and two hopes ("One faith, one hope one baptism" 'member?? Well that's only the Bible....) has failed because their prediction of the end before the end of the 20th century was false.

  A lot of people are wondering what is going on. Many are fearful of speaking out. I noticed the last time I was at a witless dinner the Troof did not come up as a topic in the conversation at all during the evening.

  HB
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  bennyk

  yadda yadda writes:
  

  Raymond Franz pointed out very well that there is practically no difference in how the 144k and great crowd are presented and described in Revelation, however, this does not necessarily mean the GC are a heavenly class..

  The naos itself is specifically stated to be in Heaven in Rev. 11:19; 14:17; and 15:5.

  The "Great Crowd" is in the naos (en to nao) according to Rev. 7:15.

  Ergo, the "Great Crowd" serves in Heaven.
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  metatron

  This one is tough to figure out. Why did they change this doctrine? A radical possibility is that they quietly realize that they need to change the nature of the Memorial into something remotely Christian and are too cowardly to do so overtly. On the other hand, such an intent would mean that they are quite fraudulent and have little faith in their own unique doctrines (i.e. they're just making stuff up as they go along)

  Did they really change this 1935 stuff just to support a few newer GB members? Is that credible? What difference would it make if they didn't?

  They may end up with embarrassing numbers here.

  metatron
• 

  willyloman

  They are probably as baffled and concerned about the increase in the anointed as ordinary members are.

  The WT Society is not baffled by the numbers. They knew this would happen when they "reinterpreted" their earlier teaching. Therefore, they must want the numbers to go up. If that's that case, they have a strategy in play that will result in some "new light" doctrine downstream. The WTS never reveals the whole thing at once. They parse it out a little at a time.
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  Jeremy C

  The WTS never reveals the whole thing at once. They parse it out a little at a time.

  Yes, they are like the dutiful mother who feeds her toddler in the high chair. She doesn't just set the whole bowl of hot cereal in front of the babe at once. She takes each small spoonful, blows on it; and then cajoles him to open his mouth.

  But, then again this is a normal functioning parent. The Watchtower leadership are like a toxic parent who treats their adult children as infants. They remind me of the character played by Kathy Bates in the movie "Waterboy". Everything outside of the home is "the devil".
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  facemouse

  wobble, you posted about the reject jesus party. I've read something about the way we do the memorial is actually a gnostic ritual of denying the body of Christ. I can't find it anywhere anymore, anybody have any idea where to find anything about this in print?
• 

  sir82

  The WT Society is not baffled by the numbers. They knew this would happen when they "reinterpreted" their earlier teaching. Therefore, they must want the numbers to go up. If that's that case, they have a strategy in play that will result in some "new light" doctrine downstream. The WTS never reveals the whole thing at once. They parse it out a little at a time.

  Another possibility:

  They had painted themselves into a corner with their "1935 cutoff" doctrine. It was painfully obvious to even the most credulous believers that something was dreadfully wrong - were that really that many unfaithful anointed in years past that needed "replacing"? So they were forced to take drastic action, and hope things would shake out well.

  I don't think they are baffled by the numbers either - but I think they were hoping it would not have been such a huge increase. Now, they will have to react and try to control the genie they have unleashed.

  I don't think they have any sort of "doctrinal strategy". The only strategic moves that I've seen over the past 20 years have been attempts to limit legal liability and increase micromanaging control. Doctrine doesn't present any monetary risk for them - so it only changes when circumstances force them to do so (dropping of 1914 generation, dropping of 1935, etc.).

  I see a couple of reactionary doctrinal changes that they can pull out in the future if/when the number grows embarrassingly large: (1) the 144K is a figurative number only, representing an "unnumbered little flock", or (2) there's a secondary heavenly class, anointed & going to heaven but not part of the "faithful & discreet slave".

  Or, alternatively, they could just stop publishing the number of partakers. The dropping of the monthly field service report from the KM could be a precursor of that.