Judicial Committee Meetings

by Pathofthorns 45 Replies latest jw friends

  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns

    I saw this interesting post on H20. Most publishers are unaware how things really work many times in the back room of a Kingdom Hall. Sure there are lenient elders, many do try to show mercy. Many times though, it is the luck of the draw depending on the makeup of your local elder body and the charges you face and how you decide to cry yourself that makes or breaks whether you are DFed or not.

    Now some might believe things most often take place according to the Society's guidelines, but those guidelines offer alot of lattitude between mercy and harshness and there is no one or nothing that can prove whether they were followed or not behind closed doors.

    I personally know this happens alot. Perhaps most are well meaning, but i think because of this overzealousness to do whats right, they often end up overstepping their own guidelines and forget the whole intent is to gain back their brother, not to punish them.

    I would suggest people perhaps considering alot of advice and weighing out things carefully before attending any meetings with elders, especially related to any "doubts" you might have. [url] http://www.cyberpass.net/~h2o/wwwboard/messages/304689.html[/url]

    Path

  • waiting
    waiting

    Hey Path,

    I suppose a jw should put as much faith in the jw judicial committee as a person does in the civil court system. Of course, one main difference is that we can face our accusers in a civil case - and have an attorney to plead our case and defend us, or at least have a public defender assigned to us.

    When we go in with a jw judicial committee - we go in alone, one person facing at least 3 men. Btw, other elders can "sit in" if they want - so a person has no idea how many men they will be facing, just at least 3 men. The other elders who just want to watch (their reasons are not given to the accused, and the accused cannot refuse) are not suppose to question or comment to the accused - however, that is up to the elders' discretion.

    When I was in in a judicial committee meeting in 1978 - I was a single mother (age 28) with 3 kids. I was told that 3 elders would be on the committee. I got to the meeting on time. There were 5 elders waiting for me. They sat up on the stage - under the stage lights facing me. I sat below them in the audience - in darkness - where I was told to sit. There was no empty chair for me to sit on an equal level with the 5 men. All 5 elders asked - demanded information from me. I was in there for sexual misconduct (being flippant in memory - he was cute.) I became angry at having to answer intimate sexual questions from 5 middle aged fat/balding men. Just being honest - I was better looking (then) than any of their wives every dreamed of being. Well, I was.

    Anyway, I finally got mad. The same kind of cliches' they were using "what's wrong with being a good little sister?" were the same my father and his friends used with me - to be a good little girl, obey. Thankfully, I was able to focus my arguement - and thankfully, one of the elders - Doyle Coonrod of Frankfurt, Indiana - was a good, fair, man. He saved me - and later he told me he was the only one who voted not to df me. There was a lot of pressure to get rid of me. And he was kind enough to tell me it had nothing to do with "the sin" (I had onely sinned once, but refused to stop seeing the worldly guy) - it was my militant female attitude that goaded the men.

    Because of Doyle, I wasn't df'd - stayed around for another 20 years. So the system worked - because of one good man - who stepped down from being an elder in the 80's - got tired of the runaround.

    Btw, when going into a jw judicial committee meeting - most civil rights are suspended. If someone has reported you - you don't have the right to know whom - or exactly what was said about you. You, the accused, answer charges. You don't even have the right to know what the charges are ahead of time. No notes will be taken by elders, nor will they read or keep your notes. You can ask to have your witnesses for you heard. They can refuse your request. If these are worldly witnesses, or jw's from another congregation - a very good chance they will refuse. Naturally, no tape recorders allowed. No attorney allowed. No worldly persons allowed. All the rules are theirs, some made up on the spot.

    If you talk about the outcome of the meeting with others in a negative manner - you can be called into meetings again. If you don't agree to silence when asked, you can be brought up on charges of slander "not for the good of the congregation."

    The cards are stacked against the accused heavily. And these views are from personal situations of my own - not necessarily of all jw's.

    waiting

  • Xandit
    Xandit

    In my experience, voluminous notes are usually taken. I don't think what you saw was typical. It is also not typical for elders other than the three appointed to 'invite themselves in.' Never heard of that in fact. If it's an especially complicated case involving multiple persons then sometimes there is more than three. Of course it seems from what I've read on the Net that many congregations don't follow the rules.

  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns

    You know Waiting, it always comes down to being cute doesn't it? I've never seen the likes of a 50 year old woman so obsessed with being cute. LOL

    Path

  • waiting
    waiting

    Hey Xandit,

    What happened to me was a personal experience. Since jw's tend not to talk about "such things", no one really knows just how rare of an experience it is. We don't talk about such things - not upbuilding for the friends, you know. We're supposed to encourage each other - even if it means keeping our mouths shut time and time and......

    But that was how my judicial committe meeting was conducted - memories have not dimmed as to my anger of sitting in darkness below those 5 men who asked me the same type sexual questions as the original post spoke about. But my questioning got further into my attitude - or the adjusting of my attitude to please those 5 men.

    You say you've never heard of this setting before? Well, now you have. I have no reason to lie - I've seen none of these men, except Doyle, in the last 20 years. I have no grievance with the outcome, never have spoken about it. But it does give insight to my sometimes contempt of men in authority, along with several other nasty episodes/decades in my life at the hands of men - all in authority over me.

    Most crappy situations aren't typical, imho. But the more we talk outloud about them - the more we find that they're not nearly as rare as we would love, need, to believe. Just the way things are.

    Hey Path

    The reason why I brought up that "I was cute" is that the operative word is was. Ask any unmarried (particularily divorced with some money) good looking sister who is able to carry on a quasi-intelligent conversation- ask her if she's accepted and well liked by married/unmarried sisters in her congregation. Ask her if when she speaks to a married brother in the KH without the wife standing next to her husband - how many seconds does it take before the wife is hugging her husband's arm. Ask her if she's invited over - with her passle of kids - to other friends' home for association. Ask her if she's asked to go shopping, etc., with the married sisters. As rare as my committee meeting agenda, I would suppose.

    I was told by Doyle when I ended up scripturally divorced in that congregation that if I wanted friends, I'd better make them - because no hands would be held out to me. He was right. I made friends, I survived. And yes, I think some of those elders, in fact, I know one of those elders, took exquisite delight in sitting over me demanding anwers of me to intimate sexual questions - and me being a hell of a lot cuter than his inbreed country wife who had ditched him leaving the sob with 5 ugly, ignorant teenagers.

    I've been a member of a half dozen congregations - different cities, sizes, states. Honestly, all are about the same - some good in them -some bad.

    waiting

  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns

    Thanks for clarifying Waiting. I was just being a bit sarchastic regarding past conversations we've had on the subject. I can appreciate what you say about the politics of being a single mom in the truth. Such a shame really.

    Path

  • larc
    larc

    xandit, I think waiting's story is more common than you think; I've read many such accounts. I've also listened to a couple of secretly taped disfellowshiping meetings, it wasn't pretty.

    You might be a JW if you believe that an elder who is an expert electrician, will be a good therapist or marriage counselor. For some elder therapists, the word therapist should be divided in two, between the e and the r.

    Waiting, I've never seen your picture so I don't know if you're cute or not. I do know that you have a cute mind. BTW, the nice thing about being a 60 year old man is that I think women of all ages are cute. When I was 20, cuteness applied to my age, plus or minus 5 years. Life is more bountiful today.

  • nelly136
    nelly136

    when I wrote my resignationletter I thought that would be the end of it, I hand delievered the letter to an elder that I knew pretty well
    he was my friends dad, I had to wait around while he read it
    and then I had to answer all his questions (least thats what I thought at the time)
    the questioning was very personal and the only question I wasnt asked was *what positions?* I almost volunteered that because I thought it was an oversight.
    I left his house thinking that that was the end of it and that
    in a weeks time justice would take its course and I'd have my disfellowshipment announced.
    I was all but harrassed out of my family home by the repeated visits and repeated questioning, when I moved to new lodgings they turned
    up there too.
    Its always bugged me that somewhere there is a written record of the questions and answers kept in a cupboard somewhere for anyone who has the title to read at their leisure.
    I thought that by writing a letter stating my list of sins that would clarify any areas of doubt for them.
    I dont envy anyone going through that kind of inquisition the only way I can describe it is a verbal gang bang.
    nelly

  • thinker
    thinker

    I am compelled to post. This is Thinkers Wife. My intro. is on the new thread, where others give a desciption of themselves.
    I must be the diva of the back room.
    What I have read on this page according to Waiting and Nelly has a very eerie familiar ring to it.
    I have had five men on my comittee cases more than once (and on very different cases). Notes were taken copiously. Looks, elbow nudging, and very envious and covetous leers were exchanged. One elder even kind of giggled and kicked another one on the ankle at one point. It was pretty obvious to me they were thinking "why can't my wife do those things for me?"
    After my husband left me, I saw one of the elder's wives (very immature btw, and flat chested) nudging her husband, looking over at me and laughing. I had no clue what was going on. The next meeting, I was called in the back room and counseled for wearing, what they called a low cut sweater. This was not a comittee. Only 2 elders. They said since I had no husband they would act as my husband to protect me.
    The sisters in the congregation were intimidated by me, and all made it clear they didn't like me. The men looked, lusted and liked what they saw. But could not stand an intelligent, honest, outspoken woman. And the fact that I was the only wife who didn't rule the roost didn't sit well either.
    I would say both these experiences are very typical, based on my own, and others I have heard.

  • larc
    larc

    nelly,

    It's terrible what you went through, but perhaps others can learn from your tradegy and escape with less pain. I think the best thing to do is to fade out as quietly as possible. Use tact, in other words, be evasive and lie if you have to. After all, we were well trained in this art, so use it to your advantage. When I was on my way out, family members would ask why. I told them that I didn't want to discuss it, because I didn't want to "stumble them". Actually, I didn't want their wrath, which my comments would certainly have engendered.

    I think that if elders asked about a person's sex life it would be nifty to ask them if they could tell about their's first so as to know what was proper. Although a nice fantasy, this probably would not be a good idea. When asked, how about saying "I don't want to tell explicit details, because I don't want you to be tempted into doing something immoral" They probably would assure you that they were spiritually strong enough to handle it and press you for the x rated details.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit