Let the automotive oligolopoly and its associated unions fail. If they can't swim on their own they deserve to fail. New companies are already forming to take their place.
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USA AUTO MAKERS SCAPEGOAT?
by Sunnygal41 66 Replies latest social current
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BurnTheShips
Economic concerns were, and always have been, at the root of social and political concerns. The "rich" and the role they play have always been a threat to liberty, leading Jefferson to observe,
- "That liberty [is pure] which is to go to all, and not to the few or the rich alone." --Thomas Jefferson to Horatio Gates, 1798.
As a rule, the wealthy do fairly well under any form of government. The rich have always worked their way into government to their own advantage, and to the detriment of the poor.
- "Experience declares that man is the only animal which devours his own kind, for I can apply no milder term to the governments of Europe, and to the general prey of the rich on the poor." --Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington, 1787.
And it therefore follows that a stronger and larger government will be more efficaciously turned to suit the whims of those that can buy its protection. Statist ideologies always become an alliance between industry and the political class. Why do the ultra rich and super large corps often seem to support statist ideologies such as socialism?
They can afford access and can pay for influence.
Also, they can secure their position from competition coming up from below as they have done and continue to do. Once established, they can afford to pass on the cost of increasing regulation along with the few market competitors that remain. These costs prevent newcomers from gaining entry. Statist socialism helps those at the very top, and those at the very bottom the most. The ones in the middle are screwed.
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Mary
Because the auto industry is one of the last places you can find Union workers who make good wages and benefits, the right wing is against them. Blue collar work is no longer respected in this country apparently. Some are willing to defend the white collar financial types, the CEO's, the ultra rich, the Oil companies etc..............but not the workaday guy who actually makes this economy turn. They want us all working for third world wages.
Sorry hon, I disagree. The average wage for a unionized worker at one of the big auto maker plants is $70+/hour plus benefits. That is slightly beyond "good wages"----it's an extreme amount to pay for the type of work they do. When you factor in all the executive salaries, bonuses, and the good ol' private jet life, coupled with the fact that these guys have been producing huge gas-guzzling vehicles without staying competative, then what a huge surprise that they're now in dire straits. Toyota pays their employees around $38.00 on average (at least here in Ontario), they build smaller, more efficient cars and still manage to make a damn good profit. How can anyone justify paying the auto workers $70.00+ for what they do there?? That's just nuts and it's finally come back to bite them in the ass. Like I've said before: there's a huge difference between making a good wage and gouging the hell out of the public. I don't blame the average worker for the type of vehicles produced by these companies----like LDH said, the average worker has no say in that whatsoever.
Looks to me like the top guns at all these places should be fired (without getting a 7 figure severance pay either), bring in some new blood, trim the wages back to a more reasonable salary for both management AND the workers, start building more hybrids and quit pissing money away as though it grows on trees. No more huge bonuses for Executives (since they do squat to earn it) and no more unlimited expense accounts for these guys either as they trot the globe on "business". I saw on CNN last night that some of the big shots from Ford and Chysler and GM flew to Washington all in seperate private corporate jets, and asked for a $25 billion dollar bailout. Pretty balsy if you ask me and it didn't go unnoticed by Congress either. One of them compared the scene to a man going to a Soup Kitchen in a tuxedo and top hat, pleading poverty.
It's true that something needs to be done about the ridiculous cost of health care in the USA too. There's no way it should all be "for-profit"----this is one area where free enterprise is not a good idea. Why the hell doesn't the US government regulate anything?? For crissakes they don't regulate the health care system or the banks. Trust me, you won't turn in to Communists by having the government regulate these sectors.
I found out I'm losing my job in the Spring time. My job has always been 'Contingent upon funding' and with the financial fallout, the funds have dried up. While my employer is going to try everything to find me another job here, there's no guarantee at this point. Is anyone going to bail me out and give me funds to pay my bills? Not bloodly likely. And it's not even my fault that I'm losing my job. While the financial problems facing the big auto makers might not be ALL their fault, they certainly have to share a big part of the blame IMO.
They don't deserve to be bailed out of anything IMO.
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BurnTheShips
Mary, I listened to NPR this morning and heard about a UAW carpenter that had worked for GM that had been making more than 100k a year, and receiving a 60k+ payout for early retirement while retaining full pension and healthcare benefits. He reminisced about the good years, when he was making what "a lawyer or doctor would aspire to reach" and complained about the current situation. There is something very wrong in all of this.
I saw on CNN last night that some of the big shots from Ford and Chysler and GM flew to Washington all in seperate private corporate jets, and asked for a $25 billion dollar bailout.
I heard that too. It is like begging on a street corner while wearing a Rolex.
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jaguarbass
I spent 25 years making tools for the auto industry. And other industries.
They had no problem outsourcing my skills and services to Mexico China and Russia and anywhere else people will work cheap.
I cant really shed any tears for them.
America is very messed up.
Everyone wants to buy their junk for the cheapest price at Wall mart but they want to make a living wage and have health care.
It's like everyone is looking for the next sucker to come along.
There arent that many suckers nowdays.
Except America is full of suckers.
Buying the cheapest junk at wall mart while there hoping to keep their job with a liveable wage and healthe insurance.
It dont work anymore.
The people are not smart enough to do the right thing and the politicians are not smart enough to lead them in the right direction.
So we have what we have a depression.
Capitalism business finding labor to make goods for the cheapest rate to sell to suckers for the highest price.
And they say its better than comunism.
So I guess 20th century America is a thing of the past.
If history repeats itself the great depression lasted about 10 years or more, 1929 to 1941
So when did this depression start? I say it started when Bush stole the election 8 years ago so it should be over in 2 years. Thats optimism.
But I could also make the argument that the depression is just starting after 8 years of Bushwacking Repbulicans running the economy into the ground. Thats probably realism. The stock market a reflection of the greatest economy on earth, as left by Bill Clinton went flat the past 8 years and is just starting to crash after 8 years of Bushwacking.
No wonder the dingbat pardoned himself from being an Axxhole and bought property in Paraguay to move his family to a real patriot.
He probably figures he doesnt have a long shelf life here in the states.
Reminds me of the Nazzi Criminals after WW2 all fleeing to south America.
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Honesty
Well you have to admit the automaker's representatives didn't make a very good impression on Congress or the American public when they showed up in their corporate jets instead of taking commercial flights from Detroit to Washington.
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jamiebowers
The average wage for a unionized worker at one of the big auto maker plants is $70+/hour plus benefits.
Mary, I live 7 miles from GM Lordstown and know MANY unionized auto workers, and not one of them makes $70 an hour plus benefits.
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hillbilly
Commercial flight? I'd have been impressed if they showed up in a fleet of K cars, Vegas, Pintos, Taurus', and the assorted Chevy LUV and Ford-Mazda mini trucks.
America has been smelling that pile of crap we call "Detroit" for years. Big 3 has lived in the past and it's dysfunctional cousin the UAW has enabled a co-dependency of epic dimensions.
Let the evolution happen...
Moshe... I appreciate the work conditions you cite in the south. I am Union too... but if I get so I cant work my job... well I have to find something I can do. Back in the 60's and 70's most northern manufacturing went south for a year or two before it caught the boat to "off-shore". Those folks down there did NOT want a Union or they would have one. There is a happy medium between what the UAW has become and what the AFL-CIO wants all workers to avoid.
Correct me if I am wrong... back in the wooden body days, didnt all the BIG 3 plants run some production in places like Memphis? GM and Ford has come into a lot of towns (OKC, KCMO, Atlanta, Bowling Green, etc) asked for tax breaks etc... placed a Union work force in place ... then close the plant after a while.
This is an age old argument... we let business get greedy and workers wait for someone else to protect them.
Blame the government all we want...but someplace in this mix there is some accountability to all in the cycle... business, workers and consumers. Only a few have paid real attention to whats happened for the last 30 or 40 years in the US ... but the future is here- today.
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leavingwt
Rasmussen: 48% of Americans Say Let GM Fail
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beksbks
Mary, my understanding is that 70.00 is with benefits. Including medical, which companies in Canada do not have to pay. I agree that there is a problem here, that there needs to be restructuring and concessions by the Unions (which there apparently already have) and certainly a management spanking and new direction. But I don't think letting 3 million unemployed hit the street is the way to do it. And there can be absolutely no denying that right wingers want to do away with Unions.