USA AUTO MAKERS SCAPEGOAT?

by Sunnygal41 66 Replies latest social current

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  hillbilly

  Building Contractor - base 30.32 plus benefits = 51.35; Cement Mason base 27.27 plus benefits = 44.85; Electrical workers base 35.85 plus benefits = 55.06; Glaziers base 28.45 plus benefits = 42.65; Ironworkers base 28.93 plus benefits = 55.10; Painters base 25.06 plus benefits = 39.86; Roofers base 28.66 plus benefits = 48.87 and Plumbers base 32.78 plus benefits = 53.

  Now - a non union worker, often uncertified, and in the USA a lot of illegals worked construction, were being paid 8-10.00 an hour, cash. This cash allowed the employer to pay no tax on the wages and many of those people were able to collect welfare benefits and health care at the same time. This cheap labour allowed the builders to push up more housing and increase profit dramatically - now we are sitting on all that excess inventory.

  Those figure are in line with what I see in my work. Now a little dirty secret about building trades and Union help.

  WE dont want all the work.

  A few years back we got in a big push to orgainise the entire world. The IBEW brought in a big bunch of new guys off the street. But in the 90's things were booming and we needed to man the jobs. Things slow down... those folks get laid off... and go right back to the non union sector.

  UNION construction targets the higher margin- more complex work... we would rather have the nuke plant, big ball park or industrial jobs that the residential or quick small commercial work ...now in the rhetoric we say we want all the work...but in fact, we cant compete in the small margin arena.

  IBEW is more flexible to the market that the others... You wont see many Union carpenters building houses anymore... but they will be seen doing all sorts of stuff in an idustrial setting with all sorts of materials other than wood.

  Trowel trades (concrete finishers tile setters) have just about died except in certain big market areas where they have held a lot of political power. Plumbers and Steamfitters are in the same boat...priced right out of everything but high margin work

  Hill
• 

  sammielee24

  The only thing I can go on is my own experience. A very close friend is a millionaire and he made his money in building - he made a lot of money before but when he could get 'others' to work for a fourth of what he previously paid before and pay cash, his income went up a few hundred percent. That was all fine for him - but who paid for him to make those profits? Everybody else that was working their job and paying their taxes so the illegal worker could be housed and fed and taken care of, while getting a few thousand in tax free cash at the same time. The workers didn't ask for too much - the profit at the top was there or the builder wouldn't have stayed in business - greed and excessive profit was the motivator. It's like going in circles. I do know that the builders and plumbers have already asked for a hand out from the 700 billion but so far that's been ignored I think. According to the papers it won't mean much anyway, since the Chinese are working up a deal to buy up the car companies. sammieswife

  Thursday, Nov 20, 2008

  It appears that the Chinese car makers SAIC and Dongfeng have plans to acquire the Big 3:

  A take-over of a large overseas auto maker would fit perfectly into China’s plans. As reported before, China has realized that its export chances are slim without unfettered access to foreign technology. The brand cachet of Chinese cars abroad is, shall we say, challenged. The Chinese could easily export Made-in-China VWs, Toyotas, Buicks. If their joint venture partner would let them. The solution: Buy the joint venture partner. Especially, when he’s in deep trouble.

  At current market valuations (GM is worth less than Mattel) the Chinese government can afford to buy GM with petty cash. Even a hundred billion $ would barely dent China’s more than $2t in currency reserves. For nobody in the world would buying GM and (while they are at it) Chrysler make more sense than for the Chinese. Overlap? What overlap? They would gain instant access to the world’s markets with accepted brands, and proven technology.

  All the Shock Doctrine fanatics cheering to drive the the Big 3 into bankruptcy “restructuring” (like Mitt Romney, who can kiss future hopes of electoral victory in Michigan goodbye) might want to think about the implications of this.

  Of course the same legislators clamouring for bankruptcy could block the sale. (This assumes they have the fortitude to stare down the Chinese, who currently hold a whopping portion of US debt, and deny them something they really want). But in doing so, and at the same time refusing a bridge loan to the automakers, they are basically legislating the destruction of the Big 3. They will be forcing them to stiff all their creditors and stockholders and tear up their union contracts by refusing to let the “free market” they love to bang on about step in and assume the company’s legitimate debts. Or were all those insufferable lectures about “personal responsibility” when the bankruptcy bill was going through just so much claptrap?

  Because selling the company would be far preferable to the Big 3 and those who are dependent on them than Chapter 7. But long-term it would not be without peril for the US. As one FDL commener noted:

  With no big three making cars what to stop Toyota and Honda from moving the plants to Mexico where costs are really low. Its only the threat of being shut out of the American market that keeps the Japanese building cars here. If we no longer have cars made in America by American companies we will have no choice but to buy their cars no matter where they are made.

  I know long-term thinking isn’t his forte. But as Richard Shelby is salivating at the prospect of yet another BMW SUV plant in his right-to-work state, it might be something for him to consider
• 

  hillbilly

  samilee... i will paraphrase something... Three Burials of Manuel ? (tommy lee jones)... any way...Dwight Yokum says to the border patrol agent re: illegal mexicans,"somebody has to pick the peppers".

  it's a fact and always will be.

  Hill
• 

  beksbks

  somebody has to pick the peppers".

  it's a fact and always will be.

  Hill

  And why is that Hill? Ummmmm because they are paying the pepper pickers a paltry pittance??
• 

  Gregor

  And why is that Hill? Ummmmm because they are paying the pepper pickers a paltry pittance?? Yes, and they get away with underpaying them because they are illegals. Conservatives want them to be legal. Then they would receive lawful wages and working conditions. The libs want them left alone so they can pick those peppers and the peppers will be cheaper in the produce section at Safeway. Bought any peppers lately? Maybe somebody should read some recent history, like the Ceasar Chavez debacle of the 70's
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  Mary

  Mary - my father and my uncles all worked at GM in Canada - NOT one of them made that kind of wage. NOT ONE.

  You're right---I know the workers at the Canadian plants don't make that much---I should have specified the USA.

  I'm confused though. How the hell do they actually determine how much they're paying the workers south of the border? When you get your pay cheque, is your health benefits factored into the hourly wage or what?
• 

  beksbks

  Conservatives want them to be legal. Then they would receive lawful wages and working conditions. The libs want them left alone so they can pick those peppers and the peppers will be cheaper in the produce section at Safeway.

  Read 'em and weep http://www.thomhartmann.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=100&Itemid=38
• 

  beksbks

  I'm confused though. How the hell do they actually determine how much they're paying the workers south of the border? When you get your pay cheque, is your health benefits factored into the hourly wage or what?

  No Mary it isn't, but in the current situation, with a rush to blame the working man, it's very handy to add in those numbers.
• 

  Gregor

  ... it's very handy to add in those numbers.

  You imply that these numbers don't count? Come on, half of what people are working for is benefits. You think the benefits are free to the employer? Try extending health benefits after a termination, the average family Cobra plan is like $1200 a month. Your credibility on this subject is reduced to posting links to God knows who and they make your "argument" for you. I like to think for myself. That's why I try to stay informed by information from several sources (please, save the tired, "Fox news" BS) I am cynical and skeptical with both the right and the left, I am not a one flavor kool aid drinker! Internet BS is .5 cents a metric ton. Waste of time trying to have an honest dialogue. In your world people flipping burgers should make $50k a year. You can't seem to grasp the dynamics of the market place. But you are a very nice person.
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  beksbks

  Hilarious coming from such an ill informed person. You know very little of what you speak. But I am a very nice person.