For all still in.... fakers. Help.

by Sofia Lose 28 Replies latest jw experiences

  • DesirousOfChange

    Sofia Lose - It would hurt me emotionally to know that he lost it all because of me, so I continue to gang in there.

    Sofia, hang in there. Ten year ago, I was your husband. Now my wife and I and our entire family is in a successful "fade". I can only imagine how many times it has been said by JW friends "I would have never believed that would happen to Doc & his family!"

    When a man is that "high up" and that deeply involved in everything JW, he sees a lot of things that are wrong, but he ignores them. He excuses it on imperfection or that it's just one incident. But all those little things are usually tucked away some where (compartmentalized) and it will only take one thing that really hits HIM (a poke in HIS eye) that will open the Pandora's Box. It's easy to overlook the battering and bruising afflicted on others. It can be rationalized as discipline or testing or sifting. But when someone unjustly sticks a burning poker in your own eye (his eye) then all of a sudden things come unglued.

    Be subtle about questioning the wrongs and injustices that you see. He's your "head" so have him explain WHY.

    Good Luck,


  • WheninDoubt

    This is the basic fundamental foundation or Creed of Christendom regardless of what religion you’re from.

    Morpheus are you suggesting to Sofia Lose that you’re a Christian? If so, what denomination. At what point does your overture hold this concept. Keep in mind, this philosophy is not derived from JW’s. Nevertheless I believe Sofia Lose also stated she didn’t wish to be a JW anymore. So the soul searching is within her, and her alone as stated by DOC.

    What Does the Bible Say About Christian Values and Christian Life?

    Frequently Asked Questions

    • How can I follow and obey God's will and live a Godly life?
    • How can I be faithful to God in my everyday life?
    • What does it mean to do good works?
    • What are Christian moral and ethical values?
    • What does God require of us?
    • How can I obey the Word of God?
    • How can I live my life in Christ?
    • What should I do to avoid sinning?
    • How can I be a child of God?
    • How can I show my love for God?
    • What values are taught in the Bible?
    • What are the Christian virtues?

    Many people sincerely want to live Godly lives but we often hear conflicting ideas of what that means.


    Worldly values include wealth, power, pleasure, revenge, fame, vanity and status. These are the most important things to people who perceive no power or purpose beyond themselves. Worldly values promote jealousies, resentments and conflicts among people in accordance with the purposes of Satan (John 8:44, Acts 5:3, Romans 16:17-20, 2 Corinthians 4:4, Ephesians 2:1-3, 4:25-32, 2 Timothy 2:22-26, 1 John 3:8-10).

    The values taught in the Bible are often the opposite of worldly values: kindness and respect for all people instead of power; humility instead of status; honesty and generosity instead of wealth; self-control instead of self-indulgence; forgiveness instead of revenge. Christian values promote peace and good will among people in accordance with the purposes of God. We will never achieve perfection in this life, but those people who strive to obey God often find a sense of joy and peace that no worldly rewards can match!

    Here is a list of ten values or principles for living that are emphasized most strongly in the Bible:

    1. Worship Only God

    One day, a religious leader asked Jesus which of the commandments was most important:

    "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' (NIV, Mark 12:28-30)

    The Hebrews of Old Testament times tended to lapse into worship of pagan deities and statues of animals or other objects, but anything that takes the place of our devotion to God becomes an idol or false god, and that is forbidden by the first of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-6). Jesus particularly singled out love of wealth as a false god (Matthew 6:24; Luke 16:13), and other Bible passages mention greed, covetousness, arrogance, gluttony and pride as being equivalent to idolatry.

    In today's world, many things compete against God for our devotion. These are some of the things that are not necessarily bad in moderation, but can become modern-day idolatry if we let them become too important to us:

    • Excessive attention to material things such as houses, cars, clothes, jewelry, physical appearance, entertainment, etc.
    • Pursuit of wealth, power, fame, pleasure or status
    • Excessive devotion to self, job, hobbies, country, ideologies, heroes, leaders, even family

    Bible references: 1 Samuel 15:23, Matthew 6:31-34, 22:34-40, Mark 12:28-31, Luke 10:25-28, Acts 14:11-15, 1 Corinthians 10:14, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:5, Colossians 3:5, Philippians 3:18-19, 1 Timothy 6:6-11, 6:17-20, 2 Timothy 3:1-5, Hebrews 13:5, 1 Peter 4:1-6
    Other references: Love the Lord Your God, What Does the Bible Say About Money and Wealth?, Wealth

    2. Respect All People

    After saying "Love the Lord your God" is the most important of the commandments, Jesus continued,

    The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these." (NIV, Mark 12:31)

    The English word "love" has many different meanings, but the Greek word, agape, used in the New Testament, is commonly known as "Christian love." It means respect, affection, benevolence, good-will and concern for the welfare of the one loved.

    In His Parable of the Good Samaritan, Jesus made the point that we should extend our Christian love to all people of the world, regardless of race, religion, nationality or any other artificial distinction. We must practice that Christian love even toward our enemies! (Matthew 5:43-48)

    Jesus' Golden Rule is, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." We should not say or do anything unless we can answer "Yes" to the question, "Would I want that said or done to me?" Neither should we fail to do the good things we would expect of others.

    Bible references: Leviticus 19:18, Matthew 7:12, 22:34-40, Mark 12:28-31, Luke 6:31, 10:25-28, John 13:34-35, Romans 13:8-10, 15:1-2, James 2:8
    Other references: Love Your Neighbor as Yourself, What are the Greatest Commandment and the Parable of the Good Samaritan?, What Does the Bible Say About Love?

    3. Be Humble

    Humility or being humble is a quality of being courteously respectful of others. It is the opposite of aggressiveness, arrogance, boastfulness, and vanity. Acting with humility does not in any way deny our own self-worth. Rather, it affirms the inherent worth of all persons. Humility is exactly what is needed to live in peace and harmony with all persons. It dissipates anger and heals old wounds. It allows us to see the dignity and worth of all God's people. Humility distinguishes the wise leader from the arrogant power-seeker (Proverbs 17:7, Matthew 20:20-28).

    Bible references: Matthew 5:5-9, 20:25-28, Mark 9:35, 1 Corinthians 10:24, Ephesians 4:1-6, Philippians 2:2-8, 2 Timothy 2:22-25,
    Other reference: Humility

    4. Be Honest

    Honesty and integrity are held as very important values throughout the Bible, and any deception to gain an advantage or harm another is prohibited by the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:16) and other Bible passages. Deception may be by false statements, half-truths, innuendo, or failing to tell the whole truth. It is all too common in advertising, business dealings, politics and everyday life. We must strongly resist the temptation to engage in any form of theft, cheating, deception, innuendo, slander or gossip.

    Rationalization is a form of self-deception by which we convince ourselves that sinful actions are justified in order to achieve a good result, but this is really just another form of dishonesty (Galatians 6:7-8, James 1:26, 1 John 1:8). Holiness is in living by the commandments, not in achieving an end result (Matthew 4:8-10, 16:26). In Biblical teaching, the ends do not justify the means!

    Bible references: Exodus 20:15, Leviticus 19:35-36, Deuteronomy 16:19-20, 25:13-16, Psalms 15:1-5, 24:3-5, Proverbs 10:9, 11:1, 11:3, 12:22, 16:28, 19:1, 20:10, 24:28, 28:6, 28:20, Isaiah 33:15-16, Zechariah 7:9, Mark 10:19, Luke 3:12-14, 16:10-12, 2 Corinthians 4:1-2, 2 Corinthians 7:2, 2 Corinthians 8:21, Ephesians 4:25, Philippians 4:8-9, Colossians 3:9, Hebrews 13:18, 1 Peter 2:12, 3:10

    5. Live a Moral Life

    Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body. (NIV, 1 Corinthians 6:19-20)

    Jesus gave a list of actions that constitute immoral uses of the body: evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, arrogance and foolishness. The apostle Paul gave similar lists.

    We often think of morality in terms of sexual sins, but according to Jesus, sins such as slander, greed, covetousness, deceit, and arrogance are equally immoral.

    Bible references: Exodus 20:1-17, Matthew 5:27-28, 15:18-19, Mark 7:20-22, 10:11-12, Romans 13:11-14, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Galatians 5:16-26, Ephesians 5:1-7, Colossians 3:5-10, 1 Thessalonians 4:3-9

    6. Be Generous with Time and Money

    The Bible tells us to share generously with those in need, and good things will come to us in turn. Each of us has something to offer to someone in need. We can give our money and our time to charity, be a friend to someone who is sick or lonely, do volunteer work or choose a service-oriented occupation. We may give unselfishly of our time to our spouse, children or parents.

    This does not mean we are obligated to share our time or money with people who are clearly not in need but just want to use or abuse us (2 Thessalonians 3:10-12).

    Bible references: Leviticus 19:9-10, 25:35-38, Deuteronomy 15:7-11, Proverbs 14:21, 28:27, Isaiah 58:10-11, Matthew 5:42, 6:1-2, 25:31-46, Luke 6:38, 12:33, 21:1-4, Acts 20:35, Romans 12:6-8, 2 Corinthians 9:5-7, Hebrews 13:1-3, 13:15-16, 1 Timothy 6:17-19, 1 John 3:17,
    Other references: What Does the Bible Say About Generosity and Duty to the Poor?, What Does the Bible Say About Using Time, Talents and Wealth?, What Does the Bible Say About Money and Wealth?

    7. Practice what you Preach; Don't be a Hypocrite

    If there was any one group of people that Jesus couldn't stand, it was hypocrites! The Pharisees of Jesus' time were a religious and political party that insisted on very strict observance of Biblical laws on tithing, ritual purity and other matters. At the same time, many of the Pharisees forgot the true spirit and intent of the law and became self-indulgent, self-righteous, snobbish, and greedy. That led Jesus to remarks such as,

    Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness. (NIV, Matthew 23:27-28)

    It is not the things we say that really matter; it is the things that we do (Matthew 7:15-20). If we claim to be Christians but do not let Jesus' teachings guide our lives, we are nothing but hypocrites.

    Bible references: Psalms 50:16-17, Isaiah 29:13-15, Jeremiah 7:1-11, Micah 3:11-12, Matthew 6:1-7, 7:1-5, 7:21-23, 15:7-9, 23:1-33, Luke 20:46-47, Romans 2:21-24, James 1:22-27, 2:14-24, 1 John 1:5-7, 2:3-6, 2:9, 4:19-21

    8. Don't Be Self-righteous

    No one is perfect; we are all sinners in one way or another (Romans 3:23, 1 John 1:8). Living a moral life means taking responsibility for controlling our own behavior. If we say or even think we are better than people we consider to be "sinners," we are guilty of the sin of self-righteousness. It is not our right to look down on, criticize, judge, condemn, or try to control other people. Judgment is to be left to God. Jesus said,

    Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck in your neighbor's eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye? Or how can you say to your neighbor, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' while the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor's eye. (NRSV, Matthew 7:1-5)

    This does not deny the right of governments to maintain law and order and collect taxes. Jesus and other New Testament leaders supported the authority of civil governments (Matthew 22:15-22, Romans 13:1-7).

    Bible references: Proverbs 26:12, Isaiah 5:21, Matthew 7:1-5, 9:10-13, 18:10, Luke 6:32-42, 7:36-50, 18:9-14, John 8:1-8, Romans 2:1-4, 3:23, 14:1, 14:10-12, 1 Corinthians 4:5, 13:1-7, 16:14, Galatians 6:1-3, James 2:12-13, 4:11-12, 1 John 1:8

    9. Don't Hold a Grudge

    Jesus said there is no place for hatred, holding a grudge, revenge, retaliation or getting even in the life of a Christian:

    You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. (NIV, Matthew 5:38-40)

    You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. (NIV, Matthew 5:43-45)

    Bearing a grudge and seeking revenge are never appropriate responses to a perceived wrong. A grudge destroys the grudge-holder with bitterness, and revenge only escalates hostilities. Jesus told us we must reconcile with our adversaries, forgive their transgressions, and let go of the anger that may tempt us to commit an act of revenge.

    Bible references: Leviticus 19:18, Psalms 37:8-9, Proverbs 10:12, 12:16, 15:1, 15:7, 19:11, 20:22, 24:29, Matthew 5:21-26, 5:43-48, Romans 12:17-21, 1 Corinthians 6:7-8, Ephesians 4:26, 4:31-32, Colossians 3:7-8, James 1:19-20, 1 Thessalonians 5:15, 1 Peter 3:9, 1 John 2:9-11, 4:19-21

    10. Forgive Others

    If you forgive those who sin against you, your heavenly Father will forgive you. But if you refuse to forgive others, your Father will not forgive your sins. (NLT, Matthew 6:14-15)

    God is merciful and forgives our sins and failings. In the same way, we must be merciful and forgive other people who sin against us or do us harm.

    Bible references: Matthew 5:7, 18:21-35, Mark 11:25, Luke 17:3-4, Colossians 3:12-14, Ephesians 4:32

  • _Morpheus
    I didnt "suggest" anything, i plainly stated that you clearly dont know your god or his representatives. Aside from the huge copy/paste job you did, do you have any personaly explanation for mathew 10:34 where jesus plainly said he did in fact come to divide, contrary to your opening post...?
  • LisaRose

    Pay no attention to to Mr. Doubt Sofia, it seems he kept the holier than thou attitude of the JWs

    Only you can know the right thing to do. Nobody here knows you or your husband, or what you are going through, so it's ridiculous to pass judgement. It's usually best to work on a marriage, especially if young children are involved, but ultimately it's your decision. Some marriages cannot be saved and no loving God would expect you to sacrifice any chance for happiness if that is the case. It's also not necessarily a good thing for your husband if you stay even though your feelings for him are gone. It's possible he would be happier with someone else, someone who loves him as you cannot. That is the hard part, knowing if it's possible to love him or not.

    I realize I did my ex husband no favors by staying. In an attempt to be a submissive wife I let him get away with a lot of things that I shouldn't have. He only thought of himself and I enabled him by staying and taking it. Possibly the marriage might have been saved if I had stood up to him earlier on, but by the time I left I couldn't stand to look at him. There was nothing to save.

    I didn't make that mistake with my second marriage. We have issues like anyone else, but we work them out because I learned to speak up if something bothered me. It's not perfect, but it is a marriage in a way my first one never was. My husband is my soul mate and best friend and I love him deeply.

  • Sofia Lose
    Sofia Lose

    Oh the trolls.... The trolls.....

    This WID character sure has a fine looking high horse.

    My hubby and I communicate quite well, and he sure knows I don't buy the last days, no higher education, early age baptisms, and other crazy crap in this religion; what he does not imagine is that I am so far detached that I no longer wish to sell this bull to another soul.

    Him, my family and even some friends are worth the sacrifice. However, some days more than others is just so difficult living a lie.

    Thank you all for reassuring me that this is not my struggle alone. The time will come when I will break free. I know it will.


  • FayeDunaway

    Keep working on your husband. And be patient. If you still love him.

    Yep, some days of faking it are much worse than others. I'm sorry you are going through this now. I remember it. It's hell!!

  • BU2B

    I can relate to the way you feel. A few times a week I dream of packing up and running away, maybe joining the coast guard, backpacking through europe, or anything to get away, far away from the kingdom hall or anyone who would try to guilt me into returning.

    I do love my wife but I do not feel close to her anymore. I do not think our marriage would survive being a "divided house" so the only options seem to be either fake it and watch my children be indoctrinated, or leave the KH alltogether and deal with a angry wife and mother, insecure sad kids, and a probable failure of the marriage. I dont think I could live day in day out in a marriage where I am the worldly "bad guy". If the marriage ended in divorce, my wife would likely get the kids the vast majority of the time seeing as I work so much and my wife has a daycare. It is a very bad place to be in.

    I still hold out hope for my wife. She sees some hypocricy/lack of love but its still "gods organization". Things are made even harder by the fact that I am basically an athiest, and would be dishonest for me to teach my kids about god when I do not believe. My wife shows them caleb and sophia videos and I am powerless to stop it. I just want my daughters to think for themselves, not because of what I or anyone else tells them. I want them to draw their own conclusions.

    For now, I take things one day at a time, because if I dont I will be overwhelmed. I try to do as little as possible JW related, and enjoy life as best I can. Whatever will be will be-que sera sera.

    I guess I just mean to let you know you are not alone, and I take comfort in knowing I am not alone either. Its good to know we are all here for each other.

  • PaintedToeNail

    Sophia-Could you stop going by pleading depression and/or panic-anxiety attacks? Telling your husband that you don't feel you can take the pressure of service and so on?

    Wishing you the best.


  • pronomono


    One more here to chime in that you're not alone. Ever since I've learned TTATT, I've had this constant fear that my wife will realize that I'm not going to turn back to the indoctrinated person I was. I'm not going to wake up and realize that I was wrong the JWs were right. I'm afraid that from this realization she'll want a divorce, not wanting to waste time building a relationship that she feels would have no lasting value. I'm still working on my fade. I discuss a few points here and there with a local elder. I'm slowly coming to the point that no matter what the outcome, I will be okay. I might not think so in the moment, but I will be okay.

    One thing that has helped me is looking at the similarities between us and ex-mormons (since they are so close in their methods, etc to us). This comparison has showed me that not only are we not alone amongst ex-JWs, but we're also not alone among those of other faiths. They go through the same struggles, emotions, and thoughts as we do. If you get a moment, watch through some of the IAmAnExMormon videos. You can YouTube or Google for them. One of my favorites deals with marriage and the struggles of opposing faiths... Our-Marriage-Has-Survived-A-Crisis-of-Faith.

    I still suffer from deep depression because of the stress a fade creates. I cherish each day with my wife and friends, because I know each one could be the last. I'm working on my "live like you were dying" mentality, not from the standpoint of eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we shall die, but from the standpoint that my entire state of affairs is so fragile, that each day could be the last with someone I love. I don't want to have regrets wishing that I treated someone differently or didn't do this or that while I still had the chance with them. I want my friends and family to know that what we have is truly special, so that way when they are told they have to shun me, hopefully they will at least stop and think twice about what they are loosing by following such a cruel policy. I know this is a pipe dream because the society spins it that us ex-jws are the ones who have lost, but that doesn't stop me from hoping just a little bit.

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