Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa 407 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  sacolton

  What do you expect when you're spoon-fed what to believe every week?
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  Slappy

  Found this to be interesting. Mabe it'll bring the true Biblical interpretation of 'rejoice' into it's proper place.

  Thus saith the Lord of hosts; The fast of the fourth [month], and the fast of the fifth, and the fast of the seventh, and the fast of the tenth, shall be to the house of Judah joy and gladness, and cheerful feasts; therefore love the truth and peace. Zechariah 8:19
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  reniaa

  Guys attacking me rather than my points is resorting to adhominen arguments and as bad as the circular arguments you accuse me of! you can do it but hopefully the reader will decern its just another tactic to throw doubt on my opinions.

  I'm also beginning to think some of you are just skimming the posts because you seem to be missing many of my replies or misreading them.

  Yes Mary,

  I think if nothing else...many of us have learned to critically think to to deconstruct assertions built on faulty logic.

  Isaacaustin you say this but can you really then say critical thinking means you can justify saying it's ok to justify worshiping jesus on a day that has no connection with him other than been picked out of a hat? why is my logic faulty and yours right in this?

  Ok why don't we just pick a day in september and change jesus's birthday to it? keep Yuletide in december 25th as just another holiday with it's pagan rituals but have jesus's birthday on another day nearer to his birth? it was men that changed it before we can change it again now, why not?

  OR alternatively could any of you imagine doing christmas as a holiday but not doing any of the rituals normally associated with it? could people do that? really make a conscious decision to not to buy a tree or put up lights, holly etc how would it feel would you enjoy it less?

  hi there jgnat, it depends on the parent if children have a dull childhood with the feastivals trimmed out, Mean parents, the type that even if they celebrated christmas would put a pair of socks in wrapping and buy soap-on-rope for great aunty edna whose getting a little bit whiffy lately will enjoy the opportunity to save money, but genuine loving parents take time to make sure their child has fun and enjoyment with plenty of toys and parties.

  That being said I am often accused of spoiling my children because I find the concept of buying presents all year round quite hard for non-JWs to take on board, there is definitely a 'Presents are only for christmas or birthdays' so i find my non-JW family get me no presents at all but ones that used to be JW's or still are do make an effort to buy presents outside of the allowed set events for them. One thing you do noticei s that as you say its not just the children that need set markers to do things by but adults too.
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  ex-nj-jw

  That being said I am often accused of spoiling my children because I find the concept of buying presents all year round quite hard for non-JWs to take on board, there is definitely a 'Presents are only for christmas or birthdays' so i find my non-JW family get me no presents at all but ones that used to be JW's or still are do make an effort to buy presents outside of the allowed set events for them. One thing you do noticei s that as you say its not just the children that need set markers to do things by but adults too.

  Wow that sounds like it's straight out of the WT. That is the same thing my mom used to tell us, "worldly kids only get presents on their birthday and christman, you get them all year". Well that's Bull$hite, I brought my kids things all the time and everyone I know does the same thing. As a JW my parents were the biggest liars because we didn't get things all the time nor did we get things on holidays.

  nj
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  Mary

  Reniaa said: Guys attacking me rather than my points is resorting to adhominen arguments and as bad as the circular arguments you accuse me of!

  Nonsense. No one is attacking YOU Reniaa---we are attacking your lame arguments because you have nothing to back them up with, other than your own personal views which of course, are all based on whatever the WTS says. Is this really so difficult for you to comprehend?

  you can do it but hopefully the reader will decern its just another tactic to throw doubt on my opinions.

  Ah yes.....Let's pull out the ol' "I'm-being-persecuted" tactic instead of facing the issues head-on. The only person who has thrown "doubt" on your opinions, is you. And that's simply because you cannot provide anything that explains why it's okay to participate in certain customs that are rooted in paganism, but not others. You have been asked this countless times on this thread and you have not provided anything beyong reiterating what the Organization says.

  can you really then say critical thinking means you can justify saying it's ok to justify worshiping jesus on a day that has no connection with him other than been picked out of a hat? why is my logic faulty and yours right in this? Ok why don't we just pick a day in september and change jesus's birthday to it? keep Yuletide in december 25th as just another holiday with it's pagan rituals but have jesus's birthday on another day nearer to his birth? it was men that changed it before we can change it again now, why not? OR alternatively could any of you imagine doing christmas as a holiday but not doing any of the rituals normally associated with it? could people do that? really make a conscious decision to not to buy a tree or put up lights, holly etc how would it feel would you enjoy it less?

  What difference would it make Reniaa? The WTS won't let the rank and file celebrate any birthday....it makes no difference when you'd celebrate it. If I decided to celebrate my birthday in June, it still wouldn't be accepted by the "Slave" for obvious reasons.

  That being said I am often accused of spoiling my children because I find the concept of buying presents all year round quite hard for non-JWs to take on board, there is definitely a 'Presents are only for christmas or birthdays'

  Oh bullshit. This is yet another red herring tactic that you're attempting to use to draw attention away from the issue at hand. I sincerely doubt anyone on this board could care less how often you buy presents for your children. (Where do you come up with this crap?) And please show me a thread where anyone on here insinuates that "presents are only for chirstmas or birthdays.'

  Reniaa, I will ask you yet again: Please provide some evidence that would support your assertion that it's okay to participate in some pagan customs and not others. Who gets to decide which ones are acceptable for Christians and what are their reasons grounded in? Can you answer this without going off topic or not?
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  lovelylil

  Who said worldly people only buy gifts during the holidays?

  I've been out of the dubs for more than 5 years now and celebrate xmas and birthdays. While I do buy the bigger ticket items at birthdays and xmas especially xmas when they have good sales, I certainly do buy my kids gifts on other non-special days as well. What parent if they can afford it would not buy something for their kid if they asked for it?

  The idea that witness kids get more through out the year is hogwash. How can they when daddy has a menial job as a window washer and mommy quite her job to pioneer?

  Lilly
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  LovesDubs

  Can you please show me and Mary and the others who have asked you again and again, where exactly the Bible forbids the observance of Christmas.

  Renaii replies......"can you show me were it says we should practise it? If you have been an ex JW you'll know the info on why they don't as much I do, so I will ask you one question, Do you think jesus would approve of us celebrating christmas? "

  The Bible doesnt address everything everybody does LOLOL! Puhleeeze. It DOESNT say to have five hours of meetings a week, so why are JWs doing that? It DOESNT say that there should be baby showers so why do JWs do that? It doesnt say people shouldnt use or SHOULD use cell phones or drive cars, or have fake fingernails...so why do JWs do THAT? How many times have the JWs said that the Bible INFERS things? That you have to go combine scriptures to CREATE what it means? That the true meaning is HIDDEN or only understood by SPIRITUAL people or is a matter of FAITH because it only implies but doesnt say directly....dogma the JWs CREATED?

  Where does the Bible say that blood can and should be broken DOWN into PARTS and that those individual PARTS can be broken down and some of those PARTS are acceptable and some of those PARTS are evil and combinations of those parts may or may not be evil? WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT??

  The Bible DOES talk about people celebrating birthdays! And if it was EVIL why would God who supposedly WROTE IT ...allow that to happen without SPECIFICALLY saying that even though JOB AND HIS WHOLE FAMILY celebrated birthdays...and even though GOD LOVED JOB...that oh by the way dont do what Job did dear reader and SIN BY CELEBRATING YOUR OWN BIRTHDAY OR I, GOD, WILL HATE YOU.

  typical JW thinking....circular, red herring, pointless, and with a caveat attached to every single thing. Every time the JWs say anything, they allow for the loophole..."new light"
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  reniaa

  That being said I am often accused of spoiling my children because I find the concept of buying presents all year round quite hard for non-JWs to take on board, there is definitely a 'Presents are only for christmas or birthdays' so i find my non-JW family get me no presents at all but ones that used to be JW's or still are do make an effort to buy presents outside of the allowed set events for them . One thing you do noticei s that as you say its not just the children that need set markers to do things by but adults too.

  Wow that sounds like it's straight out of the WT. That is the same thing my mom used to tell us, "worldly kids only get presents on their birthday and christman, you get them all year". Well that's Bull$hite, I brought my kids things all the time and everyone I know does the same thing. As a JW my parents were the biggest liars because we didn't get things all the time nor did we get things on holidays.

  nj

  It may sound like a but it's what my experiences were, I do try and buy the presents for everyone, I won't say it isn't hard without the reminders like christmas and birthdays you can easily slip into not giving presents, I would say you have to be a little more determined. If you tell me you buy presents for people and children outside of set events and don't use the oft heard phrase "wait till Christmas" then i'll believe you but i ask only for the same respect when I relate my experiences.
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  OnTheWayOut

  Your right my wording was too attacking and you are right to pick me up on it, I would say my mindset is bible with JW tones :) but in my defence on adiscussion thread it's inevitable that our responses are coloured by our personal viewpoints?

  I admit where I use a certain viewpoint, yet I acknowledge that mine is not the only viewpoint that
  might be valid. Thanks for acknowledging that your words may have been too attacking.
  I like the general thread topic and understand your reasons for asking it.

  As far as Jesus addressing sex before marriage, I personally believe that the philosophical answers
  from Jesus (as I don't accept the Bible as the Word anymore) were indicating that it is impossible to
  abstain from fornication in the heart. Beyond adultery, I think he was trying to indicate how the Jews
  could best TRY to live up to God's standards and apply them personally in life. I don't think Jesus was
  trying to set a new set of rules. Paul, on the other hand, probably was setting new rules. So I tend to
  side with you that the Bible indicates that sex before marriage is wrong.

  Having said all that, others will disagree with the intent of Jesus' words and how the Jews might have
  understood them. They might argue that the Jews misunderstood Jesus' words. My point is that
  all people need to decide how to apply the Bible, if at all, in their lives. If some want to apply Jesus'
  words and give a different weight to Paul's words in the NT, they can justify homosexuality or premarital
  sex. The Bible indicates that we all fall short of the ideal, so do the best we can.
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  Amyfa

  I have always recieved gifts all year round. My grandmother who is non Christian always got me a "little something" when ever she went shopping, my parents who are Christian gave/give me presents all the time as well, but the things I remember most have been the birthday parties and big family Christmas get togethers.
  
  I don't see any harm in Being made to feel special for one day a year. It's not a form of worship.
  
  My friend tries to tell me he dont celebrate christmas or his birthday but around the time of those events he gets presents, so I always say that was a nice present for your mum to buy for your birthday/Christmas. He can make out all he likes that he dont celebrate them but he does really and I think a lot of JW's celebrate them as well. They just do it with the door shut lol