I have nothing more to say. After Mary's and Sacolton's last post there really is nothing more to say about the WT. EVEN IF they are on the money as far as all other doctrines they have conclusively failed in one big way.
Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?
by reniaa 407 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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DaCheech
renia said:
Jesus didn't just create a new faith, he went to the jews first, they killed him and then he resurrected and a new faith was created, if the jews had llistened to him were willing to accept his message what then would have happenned? the church leaders had their time with him before handing him over for execution, that could have gone differently so differently.
try changing the Watchtower's GB, and you will get disfellowshipped for apostasy
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jgnat
Scalton: ..do you see us as "bird food" at Armageddon?" Reniaa...So I will answer you on the premise of my first 'Us' which is myself and anyone not doing God's will as defined by the bible. Yes we are bird feed!
Consider the implications of Paul's speech in Athens, Acts 7:23-31, especially 25, 26, and 27. Also, consider the verses on how the very heavens declare the glory of God, Psalm 19:1, 97:6. Until very recently, there are very many people in very many parts of the world without a bible. Yet the bible testifies that the evidence of God is around them anyways. People have a responsibility to act on the evidence with or without a bible. So perhaps those who aren't priveleged to have read the bible may still be "judged" based on how they live?
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jgnat
Since God gave men and women reason, surely we aren't to follow the bible blindly. Scripture must balance scripture, and all is to be taken in context.
For example, though Paul talked about women knowing their place in the church and wearing a head covering while publicly speaking in the presence of men, these practices have not survived in the modern secular world. I am a manager, and I have all the authority that goes with that. Men report to me. How does a bible-believing woman reconcile this?
Well, there are verses that speak of strong women in a leadership role. We have Deborah, one of the Judges in Isreal. Then in the New Testament, we've got Dorcas, Priscilla, Phoebe, Junia, Chloe, Lydia, Nympha, Euodia, Syntyche, and Apphia, described variously as disciples, fellow workers, leaders, ministers, apostles, house church leaders, and helpers. (Acts 9:36, Acts 18:24-26, Acts 21:9, Romans 16:1, Romans 16:3, Romans 16:7, 1 Corinthians 1:11, Acts 12:12, Acts 16:14-5 and 40, Col 4:15, 1 Corinthians 16:3, Phillipians 4:2, Philemon 2). Taken in to context with Paul's scripture, isn't it entirely possible that you can take a lead in your own life regarding your spirtiuality, even if you are "only" a woman?
http://www.religioustolerance.org/nfe_bibl.htm
Now, as for your choices, here's how a mental diagram can help you find possible gaps in your thinking.
Bible
Reasoning
Morality
Comment
Create a whole new (personal) faith. Accept the bible interpret personally.
Use personal reasoning power.
Keep it.
Reniaa's choice 7. Reniaa notes that this choice requires a lot of bravery. There is the possibility of "failure".
Accept a new interpretation.
Attach to a new religion, perhaps researching fully, perhaps not.
Keep it.
Reniaa's choice 6. Reniaa notes there's a possibility of being disillusioned a second time.
Accept the Watchtower, noting there are failings in the interpretation.
Try and be positive, work on change from within.
Keep it.
Reniaa's option 5. Reniaa notes that this choice requires courage.
Accept it as interpreted by the Witnesses.
Convince ourselves it is right.
Keep it.
Reniaa's choice 1.
Leave it
Use personal reasoning power.
Keep it.
Reniaa's choice 0.
Leave it.
Anti-JW. Spend our time refuting the failings of a former belief.
Leave it
Reniaa's choice 2. The weakness of this choice is the person has not really examined their choice.
Leave it
Hedonism.
Leave it.
Reniaa's choice 3. Implied in here is a "knowing" that the bible is probably right about my ultimate destruction. So the bible is left but still believed.
Option 4 really isn't a choice about use of the bible or morality, but rather perhaps a Witness choosing to remain in the society for social reasons, regardless of their personal convictions?
I notice that reniaa attaches a great deal of significance over the choice, as if the consequence might be life or death. Consider that the consequences might not be so dire. God reads hearts.
Also consider for an athiest or a non-bible believer, they may truly see their choice as not being so significant. How can personal convictions, worked out using our own reasoning power, result in "failure"? Could we perhaps that we unintentionally injure someone, by a failure of our own moral code? It seems that this sort of failure would require us to perhaps ask forgiveness or make restoration. But does such a failure result in "death"?
There is also a lot of talk about the consequence of picking the "wrong" one, or perhaps glossing over the weaknesses of another religion. When I make a commitment to a person, organization, or religion, I look to see if they follow key principles. Is there respect for the individual, reverence for life, protection of the young and the weak? If not, I will not join them. As an example in my personal life, I married my husband even though he had many known weaknesses. He shows an inordinate attention to the thermostat, for instance. I weighed the balance and found that on the scale of things, he has many more positive qualities than weak ones. As for the thermostat, I leave it alone. I wear a sweater.
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reniaa
bible student you have become a Jw hater and that reflects in everything you write, it also sounds like you think you have your own version of intepretation. But remember if you make aleader of yourself you are accountable as a leader.
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isaacaustin
Reniaa, you repeatedly refer to those who refute or speak against the org, JW leadership and what they stand for as JW haters- as though they are against the individual members. You have repeatedly been corrected on this but continue to make your closed-minded generalization of those those speak out against the cult. This makes all of your assertions inaccurate, untrue and baselaess.
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AK - Jeff
I did not read the 21 pages.
But my short answer is this: I no longer believe Jehovah's witnesses version of 'truth' - simply because it isn't true doctrinally. I also no longer believe in the God of the Bible - because he is viscious and the opposite of love. He supposedly gave us his 'word' - but there is no single understanding of that word - showing that this God is not well organized. His book is multi-interpretable. Why not just spell it out?
As for the 'rules' you state in the original post - you are still assuming that the book supports Jw interpretation? Billions of Christians disagree with that. I disagree for other reasons.
Jeff