ALERT FRON BETHEL (this may be it) (page 4)

mustang

There's also the Branch's letter saying how it was their idea to provide for longtime volunteers.

Intent in writing!!! Wonderful: go for retroactive Pension contributions.

Mustang

mustang

2) People went to Bethel voluntarily and the Watchtower is under no obligation to do anything for them.
It would depend a lot on who said what when and if a judge can be persuaded that whatever was said constitutes an obligation to be met.

The question is: does the Vow of Poverty have any obligation attached to it. They all had to sign the VoP, after a certain time 10 or more years ago. The VoP is in the Federal codes, Title 26, I believe. If there is no current ruling, this could force a court battle to attach a Pension arrangement onto what is already there.

Mustang

mustang

The VoP, being a "Condition of Employment" strengthens a Detrimental Reliance action. The ultimate problem is how well the long term was thought out and what precendets have gone before.

That Intent paperwork, even if for a foreign country, can be used for precedence; it can also be used for a generic type of Civil Rights complaint. Try USC Title 42 Section 1983. WTS has used that one, themselves.

Disclaimer: none of what I mentioned is to be considered Legal Advice. Seeds of thought are to be taken to those that can make them grow.

Mustang

bobld

Don't they have to sign "vow of poverty" so the WBTS get charity status.Also aren't there some sort of documents ie qualifications,such as Doctor,Lawyer.Oh wait Lawyer would be qualified to sue.

Bob

What-A-Coincidence

Watchtower can't pay off those on prophecies and Bethelites can't cash them in. Sounds like a subprime prophecy bubble crisis.

PopeOfEruke

I'm convinced, this is it. Pope

Seeker4

"Sounds like a subprime prophecy bubble crisis." WAC, that's funny as hell.

A rumor, but an interesting rumor.

Iloowy, thanks for that info from Europe. How are you, by the way? Drop me a note.

The Vow of Poverty aspect is also fascinating. How might that affect this?

A few notes that some may find useful. From what I understand, people with 30 or more years at Bethel were allowed to stay. But imagine some couple with a quarter century or more service there, NO out side prospects, have given up everything to serve, and now are sent off with their only viable choice to Special Pioneer with a poverty-level stipend. The WTS has often encouraged Bethelites to consider Bethel as their "lifetime career." Could that come back and bite them in the ass??

Also, when I did temporary construction work at Bethel, we were remodeling the Standish Hotel. There were non-JW tenants in the building, who had a right to stay there under NYC tenant laws. We were told to treat them with kid gloves, giving them preference for use of the elevators, etc. At one point a plumber cut a water line that was supposed to have been shut off, but wasn't, and you should have seen us scramble to catch the resulting flood before it made its way down through the lower floors to where the non-JW tenants were living!

Also, if this has any semblance of truth in it, what a PR disaster this is for the WTS. The Brooklyn Heights Press has always had it in for Bethel, and would love to run with a scandal like this. If someone did refuse to sign the "leaving papers," and also refused to physically leave, it is probably correct that the WTS could break the assumed "volunteer contract" by disfellowshipping them, but think of the tidal wave of issues that would create.

A couple has given decades of their life volunteering and signing a VoP, and the WTS shows its gratitude by DFing them simply to get them out of Bethel!! And what if this is a couple like Joe and Barbara Anderson, with a ton of incriminating insider info, a couple now disgruntled, DFed and ready to talk to the press??!!

No, it would behoove the WTS to handle this situation, if it does exist, with kid gloves.

I once knew an older couple who were caretakers at the Natick, MA Assembly Hall. They got in such poor health that they could no longer do their duties, and had to leave. I think the WTS helped them out some, but this was a very discouraged couple of JWs being put out to pasture, and non too well taken care of.

This current Bethel situation has got to be pissing some folks off who are being sent off to Special Pioneer. Bethel is full of people, can be a fun place, you have lots of good friends, cool stuff to do and even perhaps interesting work in a neat environment. Special Pioneering is simply field service hell, usually in struggling, rural congregation with lots of problems and very little financial or field service support for Pioneers.I've always thought that Special Pioneering was the most dreadful assignment you could have.

S4

GermanXJW

slimboyfat, I guess you refer to the case of Olaf Fichtner. He used to be a Special Pioneer and later sued the Society for a certificate of employment. The case about pensions was settled out of court. That is why the Society always stresses that their current procedure has not resulted from a court rule. Their procedure is: when a Fulltime Servant leaves, they pay his pension insurance ex post (!) upon request(!). (I am not sure if details have changed but this was the procedure some years ago.)

hubert

And what if this is a couple like Joe and Barbara Anderson, with a ton of incriminating insider info, a couple now disgruntled, DFed and ready to talk to the press??!!

Yeah, and don't forget how it hurt them when they df'd Ray Franz and his wife, too. He wrote the best book because of this.

Hubert

Mary

Irregardless if there were to be a court case established the Society has the money and the lawyers on their side on the other hand you have a group of poorly paid volunteers who are doubtful of hiring good lawyers of any kind take a guess which side would win.

Yes, but it would be a public relations nighmare for the Society.........sort of like where they win the battle but lose the war. While Bethelites are indeed 'volunteers', I think it's disgusting that Crooklyn feels no obligation to help these people out after years of dedicated service by these people. It's not like where you 'volunteer' for a couple hours a week at a homeless shelter or an old age home. People who do that still (presumably) have a job, benefits, a home, clothing and all the necessities of life.

Volunteering at Bethel is a whole different ball of wax. The jist of it is that you give them free labour, in return you get your food, clothing and shelter provided. If they decide through no fault of the volunteer that they can't be bothered with you anymore, should they have the legal right to just kick you to the curb? The fact is, Bethel is not a normal 'volunteer' job. It is viewed as a "career" and a person's "home". Here is a quote from the June 2001 Kingdom Ministry that is 'encouraging' young ones to go to Bethel:

"...Another brother, who has served at Bethel for 62 years, said: "I firmly believe that Bethel is the best place on earth this side of the coming earthly Paradise. I have never regretted for a second having made full-time service my lifetime career. What a joy it has been to witness and to have shared in the great growth of Jehovah’s earthly organization! It is my determination, with Jehovah’s help, to continue to make Bethel my home and apply myself whole-souled to the advancing of Kingdom interests..... What wonderful prospects await those who prepare now for a career in full-time service!..."

What's really pathetic about this article is the part where they mention the kind of people they're looking for. They're certainly not looking for the 'unskilled labourers' that they encourage the rank and file to be. No, they're looking for people who have university degrees:

"...At times there may be openings for single sisters and married couples from 19 to 35 years of age who may have certain skills that are needed at Bethel. Additionally, some brothers and sisters who may be a little older than 35 and who have specialized skills and training that could be used at Bethel are encouraged to apply. For example, these include dentists, doctors, certified public accountants, architects, engineers, registered nurses, automobile mechanics, or electronic technicians, to mention but a few. However, we do not encourage individuals to obtain specialized education or training with the thought that this will improve their chances of being called into Bethel. Those who have already received specialized training, perhaps before coming into the truth, may wish to write out a detailed résumé and attach it to the Bethel application..."

So in other words, they want/need people who have gone to university but since that conflicts with the bad light that we put university in, this only applies to "worldly" people. Gee, that's not a 'double standards' is it?

Have you ever heard of anything so stupid in all your life? No wonder they don't want this spread around the internet.

ALERT FRON BETHEL (this may be it)

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