Zev's UN/WTS Scandal Web Site - Part 2

by hawkaw 122 Replies latest jw friends

  • JosephAlward
    JosephAlward
    The WTS for years have called all other religions - false religion - and these religions ride the back of the evil beat (the great harlot) because they support the evil beast. The WTS have taken great pains at slaming all christian religions about this.

    Now we find out the WTS has been doing the exact same thing.

    That's what I don't understand. WHAT has the Watchtower done that shows it wanted to "support the evil beast"? If you say that they signed a piece of paper saying that it agreed with the mission of the Jehovah Witnesses--I'll concede this point for the sake of argument, even though I've yet to see a copy of such a document--that STILL doesn't show hypocrisy, in my view. It might just show that the Watchtower was willing to lie to the purple beast in order to have access to the tools which might help it fight against it. As I asked Dino in the previous post, do you really think that lying to satan is wrong?

    Joseph F. Alward
    "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

    * http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

  • JosephAlward
    JosephAlward

    Dino wrote,

    You see, the WT could NEVER say that their machinations were really just a "tactic to defeat the purple beast". They have ALWAYS said that Jehovah would do so.
    I challenged Dino to support this, and he wrote back with this quote from the Watchtower:

    "And the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin,... It will crush and put an end to all these(failing human)(parentheses theirs) kingdoms
    This does not say that Jehovah alone will crush the purple beast. Just as Jehovah saves souls by having his publishers go door to door, then so does Jehovah destroy the beast through the efforts of his organization.

    I'm afraid your references fail to support your argument, Dino.

    You didn't answer my question, Dino: Do you believe it is proper for Jehovah's Witnesses to lie to satan?

    Joseph F. Alward
    "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

    * http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    Gee, you have to go read about neutrality.

    Witnesses are not allowed to support the charter of the UN or promote the UN.

    Yet that is what the Witness leadership has been doing since 1992 as written by Paul Hoeffel in the 11 October 2001 letter.

    All the while they were in their articles to the Witnesses slaming the UN.

    You don't think this is hypocrisy .... well ..... oh! I get it lets call it lying to Satin ... yeah that sounds much better ..... in my books this is hypocrisy and is wrong.

    BTW their Official excuse is the library card and NOT LYING TO SATIN.

    hawk

  • Dino
    Dino

    Well JA, first of all, why dont you ask any of the JWs here whether they will be a combatant at the the wild beast' destruction? All of them will tell you "Why No, that is Jehovah's war"

    You want more proof from the WT publications?
    The WT book "Revelation-Its Grand Climax at hand" states on page 281 paragraph 12,"What though of God's servants here on earth? The John class will have no active part in the fighting at Armageddon; neither will its loyal companions, those peoples out of all nations who have been streaming to Jehovah's spiritual house of worship. Those peaceable humans have already beaten swords into plowshares. (Isaiah 2:2-4)
    Further in the paragraph it says,
    AS SPECTATORS, (emphasis mine) God's people on earth will be most interested.
    Copyright 1988 Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania
    All rights reserved.
    The "John class" is what they refer to as the "anointed remnant" here on earth at the forefront of the work. The "loyal companions" mentioned are the "great crowd" which comprise over 99% of Jehovah's Witnesses.

    I hope you got that. Once again, research what you say before you make an ass of yourself.

    Why do I have to answer your question, thread-killer, you didnt address half of ours.

    Im going to take my wife out to dinner now. So nighty night.

    Hang in there hawk, debate boy will try to twist you in circles, it doesnt matter if he is not right just so he can save face.

    Dino

  • JosephAlward
    JosephAlward

    I think our debate has unraveled and is moving unproductively in the wrong direction, so I'll try to refocus the discussion.

    I think that most faithful Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jehovah would want them to lie to the purple beast, if the opportunity presented itself, especially if such deceit would save more souls for Jehovah.

    Do you agree with this?

    Now, assuming you do agree with this, why do you think it is wrong for the governing body to lie to the United Nations--the purple beast, and to pretend to accept the goals of the beast?

    Joseph F. Alward
    "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

    * http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

  • mommy
    mommy

    Hey Joseph,
    It is not about lieing to the UN to further their work, it is that the WTBTS should never have even been associated in the first place. Time and again in their literature they have lumped together the prophecied fate of the UN and any who associate with it.

    Basically they are making the rules again, then breaking them. Here is but one quote from their lit that shows this. I have bolded out important parts. Due to the fact that the others have refered you to the larger thread, where this quote came from, I am sure you already read it, haven't you?

    WT 5/1/99
    “Let the Reader Use Discernment”
    “When you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation . . . standing in a holy place, . . . then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains.”—MATTHEW 24:15, 16.

    2 In a prophecy with implications for us today, Jesus outlined a composite sign that included wars, food shortages, earthquakes, pestilences, and persecution of Christians preaching about God’s Kingdom. (Matthew 24:4-14; Luke 21:10-19) Jesus also offered a clue that would help his disciples to know that the end was close—a ‘disgusting thing that causes desolation standing in a holy place.’ (Matthew 24:15) Let us reexamine those meaningful words to see how they can affect our lives now and in the future.

    8 Demonstrating the confidence of Jehovah’s servants that this prophecy would be fulfilled, The Watchtower of January 1, 1921, focused on it in connection with developments in the Middle East. Subsequently, in its December 15, 1929, issue, on page 374, The Watchtower definitively said: “The whole tendency of the League of Nations is to turn the people away from God and from Christ, and it is therefore a desolating thing, the product of Satan, and an abomination in the sight of God.” So in 1919 “the disgusting thing” appeared. In time, the League gave way to the United Nations. Jehovah’s Witnesses have long exposed these human peace organizations as disgusting in God’s sight.

    13….This beast is supported by world rulers. Details supplied in the prophecy help us to identify this symbolic beast as a peace organization that came into existence in 1919 as the League of Nations (a “disgusting thing”) and that is now the United Nations. Revelation 17:16, 17 shows that God will yet put it into the hearts of certain human rulers who are prominent in this “beast” to desolate the world empire of false religion. That attack marks the outbreak of the great tribulation.

    16…While “the disgusting thing” made its appearance early in this century and has, thus, existed for decades, it will take a position in a unique way “in a holy place” in the near future…. Admittedly, we will have to wait for the actual fulfillment to know all the details….Some political elements, in league with former Christians who have deviated from the true faith, are promoting hostility against religion in general and true Christians in particular.

    24 …After all, obedient Christians will not be punished when destruction comes on false religion and the rest of this wicked system. They will be discerning and heed the warning about ‘the disgusting thing standing in a holy place.’ And they will act decisively on their unshakable faith. May we never forget what Jesus promised: “He that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.”
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    If that quote doesn't tell every JW to not even be living on the same street as the UN, I don't know what does.

    BTW, if you go to the official site for JW's and do a search for UN, you will find a list of quotes in favor of UN activities. Thus, upholding their end of the bargain by advertising the UN.

    The work has already been done by many here, it is obvious that you have not read the quotes from the actual literature. And if you don't mind me saying so, you are more than likely not going to get a cheerful response to your questions without doing a bit of research yourself
    wendy

    When I leave, you will know I have been here

  • mommy
    mommy

    OOPS! I forgot, ZEV the site looks great I like the format you have now! And the circles, how cool is that.
    wendy

    When I leave, you will know I have been here

  • JosephAlward
    JosephAlward
    BTW, if you go to the official site for JW's and do a search for UN, you will find a list of quotes in favor of UN activities.

    Then such public pronouncements about the good things the United Nations has done predate the current "scandal"? If so, then why is anyone upset at the recent revelation that the Watchtower availed itself of the opportunity to use some of the resources of the United Nations? This doesn't make sense.

    Joseph F. Alward
    "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

    * http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

  • outnfree
    outnfree

    Joseph,

    You're such a jackass!!!
    The quotes on the JW website quote articles which have been published by the Society subsequent to their association with the UN/DPI.
    You obviously have NOT done your homework.
    And no, most faithful Jehovah's Witnesses would NOT want their clean, honest, upright organization to lie to the United Nations. They would rather that their clean, honest, upright organization do itself what it requires of its adherents -- rely on Jehovah. Jehovah's hand is not short. Jehovah is speeding up the disciple-making work. Jehovah is behind the preaching work and all successes. And Jehovah will see to it that the good news of the kingdom gets preached so that the end may come.... and at the end JEHOVAH will send Christ Jesus, the Faithful and True Witness forth with the angelic hosts to fight the battle of Armageddon during which the 8th world power (the UN) and those who support it, including the whorish religions who have dared to sit astride the beast deriving benefits from their association with it, will be destroyed.
    The crux of the matter is that after years of criticizing Bablyonish false religion for fornicating with the wild beast, the Watchtower Society has now VOLUNTARILY associated with 'the disgusting thing'. And if the REAL reason was merely to get a UN Library card, they were extremely dull-witted. But they were NOT unaware of the requirements to have said card -- because they had to comply with certain requisites year after year for almost 10 years. By associating with the United Nations the Watchtower Society has made itself and all its 6,000,000 adherents guilty of spiritual fornication and the penalty for such is destruction AT THE HAND OF GOD by means of Christ Jesus.

    Got it?
    One can only hope!!!

    outnfree

    When the truth is found to be lies
    and all the joy within you dies ...
    -- Darby Slick, Somebody to Love

  • mommy
    mommy

    Joe,

    The work has already been done by many here, it is obvious that you have not read the quotes from the actual literature. And if you don't mind me saying so, you are more than likely not going to get a cheerful response to your questions without doing a bit of research yourself

    Have a good day
    wendy

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