For those with family members who are shunning you could try them with this

by reniaa 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • reniaa

    please, its from the WTS society and may help you, if the family who are witnesses have taking the shunning issue too deeply

    Disfellowshipping is a very serious matter. 17 The apostle Paul wrote that Christians should "quit mixing in company" with persons who unrepentantly reject certain scriptural standards. 18 This is strong counsel, but Jehovah’s Witnesses obey it. However, contrary to Muramoto’s assertions, when a family member is disfellowshipped, personal ties and non-spiritual association are not terminated. The very passage from the 1981 Watchtower that Muramoto quotes in his first paper disproves his point. That passage shows that it is spiritual association that is terminated:

    "A disfellowshiped person has been spiritually cut off from the congregation; the former spiritual ties have been completely severed. This is true even with respect to his relatives, including those within his immediate family circle. Thus, family members - while acknowledging family ties - will no longer have any spiritual fellowship with him. 19

    That same Watchtower article explained that marital ties would not be severed if one’s mate were to be disfellowshiped: "similarly, if a relative, such as a parent, son or daughter, is disfellowshipped blood and family ties remain. ... If a minor child is disfellowshipped, the parents will still care for his physical needs and provide moral training and discipline." 8 In short, "family ties continue. ... A man who is disfellowshiped ... may still live at home with his Christian wife and faithful children since his being disfellowshiped does not end their blood ties or marriage relationship, normal family affections and dealings can continue." 20

    its in the paragraph 'freedom of choice'

    note that it says "normal family affections and dealings can continue." that they are only spiritually cut off

    I don't know if this can help those suffering from family shunning but its worth a try I hope :)


  • Poztate
    please, its from the WTS society and may help you, if the family who are witnesses have taking the shunning issue too deeply

    It appears at best to be a WT lawyer trying to do some damage control with the blood and disfellowshipping issues. I am sure they must not like all the attention these issues have generated the last few years.

    This is NOT from the WTBTS...It is not from the GB. It is a lawyer...A WT lawyer trying to give the best spin to his clients (WT) bizarre beliefs.

    All the "quotes" given are partial and incomplete to put his client (WT) in the best possible light. Don't expect to see this new light anytime soon from the WT pages.

    Go back and read the FULL 1981 WT article for yourself. They are still a bunch of sick puppies.

  • reniaa

    thx flipper and llbh,

    if I could change anthing in the wts shunning would be it, anyway if any wts writers see this I hope they can put these words unmistakably in a watchtower so people know even if spiritual fellowship is lost the love is still there, I personally would extend it outside the family too, I think being so strict only hurts the Wts, Jesus may have accepted people turned away but he always treated them with love like judas, and he always talked lovingly to them.

    8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," [a] and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." [b] 10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
  • Honesty

    When are going back to the cult reniaa?

  • asilentone

    I would like to know the answer too.

  • besty

    More recent information from 15th April 1988 Watchtower:

    "The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or disassociated one is a relative living outside the immediate family circle and home. It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative. Even if there were some family matters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum, in line with the divine principle: "Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person [or guilty of another gross sin], . . . not even eating with such a man." — 1 Corinthians 5:11 ."

    Note that the WTS have the gall to highlight the word anyone in the scriptural 'proof' quoted.

    How about emphasizing how someone disfellowshipped presumably isn't called a brother?

    How about emphasizing the potential for the so called sinful behaviour to have ceased? Say for example the person is no longer taking a banned blood fraction they were DF'd for taking once.

    How about emphasizing that this scripture is offering guidelines to the congregation on not socializing with a known and active sinner who was also a known and active brother in the congregation?

    No - the WTS emphasize the word anyone and also insert the words {or guilty of another gross sin} to encompass their long list of DF'ing offences - here they are for your reading pleasure:

    The Watchtower has created a litany of offences for which a Jehovah’s Witness can be disfellowshipped or disassociated. The following abbreviations have been used for the publications referenced. Kingdom Ministry (km) Watchtower (w) Jehovah’s Witnesses - Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom (1993) (jv) Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock (ks91-E) Organised to Accomplish Our Ministry (om) Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 1 or 2 (it-1 or 2)

    • Adultery (sexual intercourse with a person other than your marriage mate), includes;
      • abandoning wife and eloping with another woman - w79 11/15 31-2, w76 p.728
      • planned adultery to break Scriptural marriage ties - w83 3/15 p.29
      • remarriage without Scriptural permission - w56 10/1 p.597
      • polygamy - jv 176
      • dating a person not legally divorced - ks91-E p.135
    • Apostasy - w83 4/1 pp.22-4, km 8/80 pp.1, 4. includes;
      • rebellion against Jehovah’s organization - w63 7/1
      • promoting sects - it-2 886
    • Associating with disfellowshipped people including;
      • friends - ks91-E p.103, w81 9/15 pp.25-6, w55 10/1 p.607
      • family - ks91-E p.103
    • Blood and blood transfusions - w61 1/15 ks91-E p.95, jv p.183-4
    • Drug use - ks91-E p.96
    • Drunkenness - ks91-E p.95, it-1 656
    • Dishonest business practices - w63 7/1, w86 11/15 14
    • Employment violating Christian principles - km 9/76 p.6, km 2/74
      • working for any religious organization - ks91-E p.95
      • working in a gambling institution - ks91-E p.136
      • selling tobacco - ks91-E p.96
      • contract work at a military establishment
    • False worship. Includes;
      • attending another church ks91-E p.94
      • following mourning customs that involve false worship - w85 4/15 p.25
    • Fornication it-1 863
      • bestiality - w83 6/1 p.25
      • incestuous marriage - w78 3/15 p.26
      • artificial insemination – g74 8/8 p.28
      • sexual abuse of children - g93 10/8 p.10Reviling - ks91-E p.94, w96 7/15 pp.17-18; it-1 p.991; it-2 p.802
    • Fraud - ks91-E p.94, om pp.142-3
    • Gambling or related employment - w80 9/1, ks91-E p.136
    • Gluttony - w86 5/1
    • Greediness, this in used to include;
      • gambling ks91-E p.95
      • extortion ks91-E p.95, w89 1/15 22, it-1 p.789
      • greed in relation to bride-price: w98 9/15 p.25
    • Homosexuality - w83 6/1 pp.24-6
    • Idolatry - w52 3/1 p.138
    • Loose conduct - ks91-E pp.93, 96, w83 3/15 p.31, w73 9/15 p.574, it-2 p.264, ks91-E p.93, w83 3/15 p.31, w73 9/15 pp.574-6, w97 9/1 p.14, it-2 p.246. This includes;
      • Sexual perversion
      • Disregard for Jehovah's moral standards
      • Disrespect, disregard or even contempt for standards, laws and authority,

    Not restricted to the usual definition of sexual perversion, the Watchtower Society defines "loose conduct" as including "disrespect to elders". This enables this term to be used to disfellowship for a wide range of offences not elsewhere covered, and as such is used to cover all manner of sins, such as refusal to cease fellowship with disfellowshipped people, or even being contemptuous in a judicial meeting where no other sin can be proven.

    • Lying - ks91-E p.94, g00 2/8 p.21
    • Non neutral activities (involvement in politics and the military) - ks91-E p.96
    • Military service and non military service including working casual work (certain civilian work has recently been made a conscience matter w96 5/1 p.20) - ks91-E p.96
    • Obscene speech - ks91-E p.95
    • Parents condoning immorality - w56 p.566
    • Political involvement, including voting or holding a political card in Malawi - ks91-E p.96 John 6:15 Therefore Jesus, knowing they were about to come and seize him to make him king, withdrew again into the mountain all alone. (w99 11/1p.28 made this a conscience matter)
    • Porneia. “It includes oral and anal sex or mutual masturbation between persons not married to each other, homosexuality, lesbianism, fornication, adultery, incest, and bestiality.” - ks91-E p.93
    • Slander - ks91-E p.94, w63 7/1, w89 10/15 p.14, om p.142
    • Smoking or selling tobacco - km 2/74, ks91-E p.96
    • Spiritism (includes yoga w02 8/1 p.22) - w55 10/1 p.607
    • Stealing, thievery - om pp.142-5, ks91-E p.94
    • Subversive activity - w95 10/1 p.31
    • Uncleanness
      • sexually ‘perverse’ practices within marriage, such as oral and anal sex - w83 3/15 p.31
      • heavy petting and breast fondling - ks91-E p.92
      • touching of sexual parts - ks91-E p.91
    • Violation of secular law if flagrant attitude - w86 10/1 p.31
    • Violence, extreme physical abuse, fits of anger - ks91-E p.96, w75 p.287, g01 11/8 p.12
      • Includes Boxing w81 7/1 pp.30-1, ks91-E p.142
    • Wilful non support of family, endangerment of mate’s spirituality - w88 11/1 pp.22-3, km 9/73 p.8, ks91-E p.95
    • Worldly celebrations such as Christmas - ks91-E p.95 (It appears celebrating birthdays is not a reason to be disfellowshipped
  • Gopher


    I appreciate your spirit in reaching out. As was stated earlier, the WT allowance for 'normal family relations' mainly applies to marriage mates, or parents and children living under the same roof.

    If you go to this link:

    Click on page 2 in the link. You'll see a PDF file from the August 2002 "Our Kingdom Ministry" insert that was studied at all congregations during their weeknight Service Meeting.

    Here's what it said in paragraph 9 under the subheading "Relatives Not in the Household":

    "The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or disassociated one is a relative living outside the immediate family circle and home", states The Watchtower of April 15, 1988, page 28. "It might be possible to have no contact at all with the relative. Even if there were some family matters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum," in harmony with the divine injunction to "quit mixing in company with anyone" who is guilty of sinning unrepentantly. (1 Cor. 5:11) Loyal Christians should strive to avoid needless association with such a relative, even keeping business dealings to an absolute minimum. --- See also The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, pages 29-30.

    My parents treat me like some distant disfellowshipped relative, and try to have as little contact as possible. In a letter to me ,they wrote that the August 2002 Kingdom Ministry contained "sound advice" for them.

  • Honesty

    F*#k 'em.

  • Gopher

    Notice the difference:

    1 Corinthians 5:11, in its entirety:

    But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.

    1 Corinthians 5:11, as applied by the WT Society:

    "quit mixing in company with anyone" who is guilty of sinning unrepentantly

    There is a difference! 1 Corinthians 5:11 talks about those who (1) are called a brother, and (2) are guilty of one of 6 specific sins -- not any 'unrepentant' sinner.

    They twist things to control people.

  • White Dove
    White Dove

    I told my JW dad that I will never condone or support df'ing because it violates the law of love.

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