I met with a surgeon yesterday about blood - wow

by BonaFide 33 Replies latest watchtower medical

  • BonaFide
    BonaFide

    I was asked by a friend to go with an older sister yesterday to the hospital to talk with her surgeon about her upcoming major surgery. Hospital Liason Committee told her to watch the Society's video on blood, and if she can't get her surgeon to agree on non-blood treatments, then they will help.

    It was the weirdest experience of my life. The sister looked at the surgeon as if he was Satan himself. He said she would only lose a unit of blood during surgery and he would recycle it back into her body. She asked him if the blood would "stop." He asked her for clarification. She said that if her blood leaves her body it has to keep moving. He tried to be nice to her but she kept on repeating words like "albumin" and "cell saver" although she didn't know what they meant. I cut in, because she had asked me to help her, and I said I am sure the surgeon will do fine, and she will be fine. He respects her position. But she didnt want to look at him and she kept on reading from her notes from the video. She would say, "Do you do hemodilution?" He would then try to explain, and then she would ask another one.

    I then asked the surgeon what is his experience with Witnesses. He said we are all different, some reject some things and other Witnesses don't.

    But the sister kept on getting mad at him, now she said, "Well, I really think you are a great surgeon if you refer me to another doctor who will respect my wishes." He asked her again what specifically she didn't want done, but she said, "I don't want you to store my blood." He said he wouldn't store it. Then she asked him if he would clean it, she wanted her blood cleaned with a machine that keeps the blood moving.

    At that point I jumped in and said that since she had said she would accept blood fractions, and blood fractions have been stored, that I think it would be ok, but it is up to her. She said ok, finally. But she looked confused and angry.

    The surgeon got out of there quick. He looked a little frustrated, he said at the end that he has a lot of experience.

    Then the nurse came in and asked for a donation of blood. The sister said no.

    When we left, I asked the sister what she thought of different Witnesses agreeing to different procedures. She said that we all have a conscience. I reminded her that blood fractions, which she said she would accept, are mentioned in the new "Keep Yourself in God's Love" book, and that they are made through processing the blood, so the blood would be stored during that processing time.

    She ignored me and changed the subject.

    She said she was happy to be faithful to Jehovah and even if she dies thats ok. And that so many doctors can test your faith because they dont care about God's laws.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Don't you see? She was looking forward to a "test". It's no fun if everything is fine, if the surgeon is fine, if everyone is fine with her wishes. Where's her martyrdom, darnit?

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    you can't say that jgnat, this is probs more about keeping control so she isn't frightenned, shes facing major surgery, the blood issue is complex, lol I've never even eaten black pudding/blood sausage. She is probably getting this complex on it to stop facing the truth of major surgery, it'll be a comfort of sorts gives you the feeling your life isn't completely in the hands of a stranger.

    Support your sister she needs you as a brother you helped her through the meeting now just be there for her. this is not the time for making issues but for caring, the less stress she has the better her chances of getting through op without complications.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    In this case, I don't think the poor sister was listening to the professional at all. She did not expect to be getting good advice. He was genuinely trying to help. Yet, she soldiered on, going through her "list", trying to find fault, somewhere, in the whole procedure.

    The video is a horrible mix of bad bible and bad science, by the way. I am not surprised that most JW's are very confused.

  • Mandette
    Mandette

    Not to mention that the medical establishment has been demonized over the years by the JW's. Yes they do have their problems but they aren't waiting to sneak blood on someone when they aren't looking.

    And obviously this misinformed woman didn't do a great deal of research beyond the very slanted publications. So sad for her.

    Mandette

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    It doesn't change the fact she is facing major surgery and she has made her choice, this isn't the time to upset or aggravate her, Bonafide did a good job of keeping the meeting on track and for that i have to praise him. I don't agree with muslim practises but I treat them with respect, to a born in JW the blood issue is a deep one, we read the scriptures in NT and for us it is sacred, I may have myself after many years have come to see it as not so cut and dried but it's still there in me because however much people may disagree with it, early christians died over this issue too and that was only animal blood.

  • choosing life
    choosing life

    I have seen quite a few witnesses and how they deal with doctors, working in the hospital. Many of the older ones are scared to death of the medical system. They think someone is going to try and force blood on them, even if their condition has nothing to do with needing a blood transfusion. They are afraid to sign the papers for consent for treatment and they insist on writing no blood transusions on every paper.

    With the fraction policy now, no one can make sense out of the nonsense. It is a shame they told this elderly lady to watch a video and figure it out. Bonafide, you sound like you were a help to her, even if she didn't realize it.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I don't suggest he handled it badly, only, there was more than simple confusion displayed in her behavior. She wanted a confrontation in order to bolster her beliefs.

  • no more kool aid
    no more kool aid

    I agree with you, Jgnat. All one can do in this situation is state your beliefs, what you will take and what you won't. Then you have to trust the medical professionals. That's why facing surgery or any procedure is so scary, you are totally giving up control for a period of time. Physicians are not "looking" for ways to test you or stomp on your religious beliefs. Plus, it is very frustrating talking to patients with limited medical education. I have sat in on such meetings with physicians on behalf of brothers and have even heard things like "I'll sue you if my belief is violated." If I were in the doctor's shoes I would not touch them with a ten foot pole.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I hear you, N-M-Koolaid. I read an ethics case on blood where a patient refused blood and suffered a catastrophic loss of blood. Through heroic efforts, the medical profession was able to revive him. But because of the low volume of blood, the organs started to deteriorate. Without blood, the man was terminal. The doctors explained this to the family, I think trying to help them make a decision to either transfuse or to stop heroic measures. The family did not "get it". They insisted on no blood, but also asked the doctors to do all they could to save him. The doctors and nurses had to treat this poor man in every way except the one that would help him recover, and watched him slowly die over several days.

    I partially blame the Watchtower society for mixing up bad medicine with bad theology. If they stuck to theology, at least their people would not be walking in to these situations with false hopes. They would understand that this prohibition is life-threatening. They would understand the full import of their choice.

    But the society keeps suggesting that their "no blood" stance is leading to improvements in medical care, and puts out the false hope that "alternatives" will save the day and may indeed be "safer".

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