by dawg 24 Replies latest jw friends
Thanks Dawg, this was fun. Blew the dust off my bible and did some cross reading there, reinforcing my belief that it's all a crock
No kiddin' Dinah. Seems as though "Christianity" has very little to do with Jesus and his ways. People seem to need to box things up nice and tidy, with rules and regulations and a feeling of superiority. Paul puts that all together for them nicely.
Another thing, Paul just took over.
Paul was a more prolific writer (or more of his writings survived to this day). Don't confuse volume of writing with primacy. Even as "Apostle to the Gentiles" the issues regarding Gentiles were submitted to to the rest of the Apostles (Acts 15). Peter occupied the primacy.
BTS
ummm...I don't know what makes you think that paul was against women...sure he didn't think they should speak in the church but it was a pattern that all the jews followed...there were no women speaking in the temples as teachers either...there was a special place built for them in the temple!...Fourteen steps led through the Beautiful Gate to the Court of the women where the poor boxes were, into one of which the poor widow cast her two mites (Luke 21:1-4). cf http://www.bible-history.com/jewishtemple/
love michelle
Maybe this Michelle...
1 Corinthians 14:34-35 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak... And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home."
Or this...
1 Timothy 2:13-15 "For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing, provided [she] continue in faith and love and holiness, with modesty."
There are many more but you can rummage all through the NT and see Paul's teachings contradict Jesus. Show me once where Jesus said to not talk to sinners for instance.
The Lord never told his Jewish followers that they were no longer under the Law either. Hence, they were not given to talking to the entire nations of "heathens" (sinners) who surrounded them, per their own Law. That's what the big stink was about when Paul began bringing in the Gentiles, and James and a few others were highly indignant about it at first. It took some persuading to get them to chill.
As for Eve being deceived, I don't see a problem with that. Facts are facts. It doesn't let Mr. Adamo off the hook, as he was right there "with her" during the deception and should have spoken up. And I don't see a problem with "childbearing... faith... love .,.. holiness... modesty" either.
Ditto for women speaking up in the churches... you know how they can cackle... lol. Sorry, I can't get too incensed about it. And I find it interesting that a man would.
But if you don't want to like Paul, that's OK. Carry on. I've heard there were a big bunch of "Paul haters" out there in the world, and that they were becoming more active, it's just that I just never "met" any before. ;-)
Maybe this Michelle...
1 Corinthians 14:34-35 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak... And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home."
Or this...
1 Timothy 2:13-15 "For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing, provided [she] continue in faith and love and holiness, with modesty."
Read the article I posted earlier Dawg, it addresses this passage.
There are many more but you can rummage all through the NT and see Paul's teachings contradict Jesus. Show me once where Jesus said to not talk to sinners for instance.
Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel.
However he also said that his Apostles would be given the Holy Spirit after his passing and that it would teach them everything (John 14). And in Matthew 7:21-23 he says:
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
BTS
The thing that I always found a little offputting about Paul was his continual self-references. Paul saw the light on the way to Damascus...Paul will go to Rome...Paul permits this or that...Paul did not burden you but made fishnets...Paul, Paul, Paul.
It almost reads, dare I say it, like the deceased pastor Rev. Gene Scott - "those other preachers don't like it because I smoke cee-gars and tell the truth...they come over to my house when they want to smoke and get drunk"...
Even if you overlook the questionable fondness for little Timothy, the questionable disdain of women and marriage, the arrogance persists and is a problem for me.
LOL re: Gene Scott!
Had the "pleasure" to catch about six months of his re-runs before his pastor/wife finished "grieving" and took over the operation whole hog, took his name off the TV screen, website address, and everything, lol.
He may have been kooky, but I enjoyed his lectures. He was dang smart.
--------
As for Paul, maybe it's a "guy thang." Men like to "size up" other men (not in a sexual way, just personality wise) or so my former married Jewish girlfriend told me that her husband used to do that all the time to other men, determining whether he was going to like them or not as people.
And noooo, I don't think Paul was gay just because he mentored "young Timothy" as a son, etc. etc. And I never noticed he talked about himself too much, heehee. Different strokes, I guess... It comes across (imnho) as someone just trying to share w/the "unruly heathens" how to have some discipline in their lives... "follow my example," etc.
If jesus the supposed son of god was unable to get christianity going, then why/how could an ordinary man do it? In other words, why are not jesus' words enough? Why did the the supposed 11 apostles of jesus do nothing for at least 40 yrs, after jesus had entrusted the kingdom and it's keys to them? Why was it necesary for an outsider to come in and kick off what jesus and his apostles had been unable to do?
S
Ps, did satan win, afterall?
Paul was the 1st century Rutherford. Crack the whip, make some rules. No pain no gain.
