I hope some of you will take a moment and read this. I've been saying for some time now that the New Testament is suspect... in that none of the writings can be clearly attributed to the so called "gospel" writers...
Even with all that, I've never considered Paul to be anything more than an nut case. But did Peter view Paul as a heretic also? Maybe. Just please read and comment.
http://www.ftarchives.net/foote/crimes/c1.htm
You guys have got to see this! Paul the heretic.
by dawg 24 Replies latest jw friends
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dawg
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dawg
In all fairness, I just finished Clement's writings, he seems to view Paul as an apostle... My mistake.
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dawg
Maybe this may explain my research better. http://www.yahuah.org/oldPaul.html
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BurnTheShips
A quick look and this text is rife with opinion and assumption with little to back it up.
John, in his Revelation, scowls at Paul and his Gentile following, who "say they are Jews and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan" (Rev. 2:9).
Scowls at Paul and the Gentiles? Where in the text? This is nothing but conjecture and interpretation on the part of Foote.
and sneering at James and John (Gal. 2:9) as seeming to be pillars
No sneering is evident in the text! In fact, a full reading of Gal, 2:9 reveals that there was fellowship (not strife) between Paul, James, and John:
James, Peter and John, those reputed to be pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the Jews.
the former of whom retorts that Paul is a "vain man" (James 2:20).
James never addressed Paul here, but those that believed that faith alone is sufficient. Paul did not teach this (Romans 2:6):
God "will give to each person according to what he has done."
Peter has no longstanding dispute with Paul, his issue was with those that twisted Paul's writings, as Foote does here with Scripture (2 peter 3:14-16):
So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
In an epistle of Peter to James, prefixed to the Clementine Recognitions, and as genuine as any other portion of the writings ascribed to Peter, Paul is alluded to as "the enemy," and the author of lawless and foolish teachings. Of the Recognitions itself, a work ascribed to Clement,
No it is not genuine. It is a later (9th century), forged, apochryphal pseudo addition to the Recognitions of Clement.
The Pseudo-Isidorian Decretals and certain fictitious letters ascribed to early popes, from Clement to Gregory the Great, were incorporated in a ninth-century collection of canons purporting to have been made by a certain, apparently fictitious, Isidore Mercator, not to be confused with the early medieval encyclopedist Isidore of Seville. The useful name "Pseudo-Isidorian Decretals" has been in common use since the awakening of textual criticism among humanists of the 16th century. Since the decretals and letters are included with spurious Hispanic canons and other forgeries, the critical editor Bernhard Eduard Simson in 1886 gave the fitting designation "Pseudo-Isidorian Forgeries" to the whole series.
A measure of the widespread use of the collections presented can be judged by the fact that seventy-five manuscripts of the Pseudo-Isidorian material have survived, and that they differ widely one from another. Collections of canons were commonly made by adding new matter to old. The forger of the Pseudo-Isidore collection took as the basis of his work a quite genuine collection Hispana Gallica Augustodunensis and interpolated his forgeries among the genuine material that supplied credibility by association.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudo-IsidoreFoote:
Irenaeus, in the second century, in his work against Heretics, stigmatises them with the most abusive epithets, and accuses them of the most abominable crimes. He calls them "thieves and robbers," "slippery serpents," "miserable little foxes," and so forth, and declares that they practise lewdness in their assemblies.
That insinuation that Irenaeus held Paul as a heretic is an outright lie! In his work "Against Heresies" Irenaeus wrote regarding Paul:
Ye are initiated into the mysteries of the Gospel with Paul, the holy, the martyred, the deservedly most happy, at whose feet may I be found, when I shall attain to God; who in all his Epistles makes mention of you in Christ Jesus.
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.v.ii.xii.html
Irenaeus wrote many more accolades to Paul besides.
Perhaps you should read source texts before posting these half-baked polemics.
BTS
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BurnTheShips
In all fairness, I just finished Clement's writings, he seems to view Paul as an apostle... My mistake.
Oops? I posted previously before I read this response. I was researching the writings myself. Good on you for fact-checking. BTS
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dawg
No problem Ships. after I did follow up, I also see very little reason to trust this man-I agree with you all the way. I'm still researching Paul, I find his teachings suspect in that he sounds opposite of the Christ. We all know Paul's history-its been an interesting morning.
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dinah
Hi Dawg!
The thing that bothers me about Paul is his attitude toward women. Jesus didn't have that attitude. he chose to reveal his purpose to that woman at the well. Paul would never tell anything to a lower than worm dirt woman.
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dawg
I see that too Dinah.
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dinah
Another thing, Paul just took over. You hardly hear anything from Apostles who were walking with Jesus while he was here. It's like he just pushed them out of the way.
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BurnTheShips
The thing that bothers me about Paul is his attitude toward women.
Dinah, Paul's attitude may not have quite been what you think. Give this a read when you have the time:
http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~abr/onlinedox/xtian/paulwomen/paulwomen.html
This would actually make a pretty good thread.