by wings 35 Replies latest jw friends
If you read the bible from the beginning you'll find God to be the most evil of beings around, cruel blood thirsty, insane and unjust
so you could really put the evil label on him quite easily if you wanted to switch roles.
In real terms they were both invented and derived from human ignorance of primitive mens imaginations.
The only reason the gods still exist today is because men are deriving power for themselves, so its very important for them to keep the belief alive. ( ie. JWS )
I watched a program last week on the Learning channel about Wicca, Paganism, Catholic church and Shinto religions it was
a variety of stuff. Anyways I was very surprised to learn that Wicca and Paganism believe in Good and Evil yet they do not
believe in the devil. It was a lot about channeling energy and worshiping nature and deity's.
Surprising the things you learn.....sometimes the more I read and programs I see the more questions I have.
I don't really know the answer to your question....anymore.
h40
Does not believing in God bring evil down to a simple explanation of the conflict that is within every human being. Seems to me the "force" is at work in the world, and the "force" is both good and evil.
Sometimes it is easier for me to believe in the existence of Satan than the existence of God. Weird, I know. Just part of my process through this confusion.
You may seemed confused to yourself, but to me you seem to have much clarity.
We live in a world of opposites. It is up to each person to choose how they will express their life.
I really like what Leonard Cohen had to say:
The birds they sang
at the break of day
Start again
I heard them say
Don't dwell on what
has passed away
or what is yet to be.
Ah the wars they will
be fought again
The holy dove
She will be caught again
bought and sold
and bought again
the dove is never free.
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.
We asked for signs
the signs were sent:
the birth betrayed
the marriage spent
Yeah the widowhood
of every government --
signs for all to see.
I can't run no more
with that lawless crowd
while the killers in high places
say their prayers out loud.
But they've summoned, they've summoned up
a thundercloud
and they're going to hear from me.
Ring the bells that still can ring ...
You can add up the parts
but you won't have the sum
You can strike up the march,
there is no drum
Every heart, every heart
to love will come
but like a refugee.
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.
That's how the light gets in.
That's how the light gets in.
I think its appropriate to let George Carlin express his thoughts on God
( Warning the language can be a little course at times )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o&feature=PlayList&p=A033B4EAB594E777&index=3
Here is another video that was on the Penn and Teller show awhile back thats interesting
Interesting and thoughtful comments. Thanks.
So, to move the conflict from external forces (that may not exist), to an internal understanding one's individual interest in donating to evil or good....is somehow empowering but also deludes the obligation of black and white thinking.
For me, viewing good and evil as shades of color has created a new challenge of choice. Part of the "thinking for yourself" that a loss of faith in God and Satan has brought.
Another question would be...."is evil always bad?"....or...."is good always good?" To not think in absolutes puts an entirely different spin on reality, for me anyway.
wings
I personally think that there is no such thing as good or evil, in the absolute sense, we make up our own good and evil depending on the circumstance. If there is such a thing as a god I don't think it would have any morals like we perceive them. If you believe that good and evil is determined by a god then I think there is still no absolute good or evil. The bible is a good example. If god decides that killing and raping is good then it becomes good just because he decided it was. Is eating a fruit morally wrong? No of course not but it becomes wrong when god says it's wrong. If there is a Satan this person would be considered evil only because he does not accept god's decision. Do you think that is evil? I don't.
Good vs Evil.....does the existence of God prove the existence of Satan?
First we would have prove the existence of god and the question would then answer itself.
Until that happens we are left to ponder the results of positive and negative behaviour. What we think is off as beneficial to us personaly we lable good. And what we perceive as harmful we lable bad.
Good and evil are simply concepts that are used to define the effect that peoples behaviour has on us or those we care about or identify with. Or what benefits us as a race of people or the human race as a whole.
Good and evil are largely subjective terms that have no value without context. The idea of an invisible mystical creature roaming the earth trying to harm people is a trick of the mind. But then the mind is not entirely rational.
The good vs evil duality in western society originated w zerostrianism. Jews returning from babylon after persia conquored it brought it back w them.
You beat me to it. I was going to point this out as well. Initially, the Jews didn't have a concept of the devil the way we do today. The Adam & Eve story never even hints that the talking snake is anything but a talking snake, nor does the rest of the Old Testament for that matter. Pre- Babylonian exile books attributed both good and evil deeds to Jehovah, whereas post exile books attribute good deeds to Jehovah and evil deeds to the devil. The name Satan is never mentioned in the Old Testament.
Eventually the Jews adopted the Zoroastrian concept of a good God and an evil God. Ahura-Mazda vs. Angra Mainyu became Jehovah vs. Satan after the jews returned from the Babylonian exile, where they were exposed to Zoroastrian beliefs. Note the parallel accounts of King David recorded in 2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles21:1. The pre-exile 2 Samuel attributes the event to Jehovah, while the post-exile 1 Chronicles attributes the same event to Satan.
Personally, I think knowing where the concept of Satan comes from makes it much easier to decide whether or not Satan exists.
If there is a Satan this person would be considered evil only because he does not accept god's decision
I agree. Megs said the same thing in the first post. So, in Judeo/Christian beliefs....good is only based on what God wants at the time he wants it. Obedience would be the explanation. I thought George Carlin's "thoughts on God" that Homer brought was a good explanation of the inconsistencies in this theory from a human view point. It is a mind bender at best.
"Forget your perfect offering There is a crack, a crack in everything That's how the light gets in."
wings
