Bravo, Awakened07. Let's not diminish ourselves on anything so silly. If the JW cannot see and understand the "generation" falsehood, or the hypocrisy of the NGO United Nations scam, then exactly what would this accomplish - even if it were true?
Rutherford......the Pimp?
by Gill 42 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
yknot
So after reading the last paragraph I went over to exjws.net to review Visions of Glory--A History and a Memory of Jehovah's Witnesses by Barbara Grizzuti published in 1978. http://www.exjws.net/vg.htm
In chapter IV Accumulating Wealth While the World Refuses to Die of her book this accusation is found
The phenomenon of denying the evidence, and making no connections or faulty connections, is common to all people whose need to believe overcomes their rational judgment. Faced with the fact that some of their leaders have been suspected of hitting the bottle with a passion, confronted with the rumors that a small brothel was once maintained on Willow Street in Columbia Heights for the entertainment of Bethelites around mid-century, Witnesses' eyes glaze, and they will either refuse to countenance the charges or stoutly maintain that God's servants are "imperfect vessels.” ....Barbara Grizzuti
Here is the Wiki link about her http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Grizzuti_Harrison
Perhaps before we equally rush to judgement that this is "bunch of crap or anti-witness lies" let us examine the source of the comment.
I would also ask that we consider if the society ever took legal action to dispute such a statement?
It is too bad Maximus isn't posting anymore, surely he could give us some insight. In one of his posts he does mention Knorr going out on the town and then preaching against such evil the next morning....I'll try and find the link a bit later.
Nathan Knorr and Max Larson (then factory overseer now Watchtower Society of NY president) used to come into the lobby of 124 Columbia Heights with top hats--and female dates--having enjoyed some of the interesting things Manhattan has to offer. (I've seen it. Arthur Worsley was the authority on it.) The very next day NHK could be inveighing about the dangers of worldly parties creeping in to the organization. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/13530/165684/post.ashx#165684
-
Scarred for life
I agree with Awakened07's post.
-
Gill
Everybody! Thanks! It may be worth 'looking into' by those who know a few of the old timers who are still around.
Satanus - I used to believe that no way was Russell a Mason BUT, since studying Masons and their belief I believe that he WAS a Mason, simply because of his masonic imagery, language, burial etc.
Did you know that the Russell Corporation set up the Skull and Bones Society. But that's a story for another day! (New World Order - New World Translation, One World Government etc)
-
Satanus
Gill
True, rusell picked up and used a lot of their imagery and some beliefs. He was connected to masons, high ranking zionists and some esoteracists. It was a time when new free thought and optimism were popular. Rusell was taken in and caching in on it. Being a member wasn't/isn't necessary to use their stuff.
S -
Satanus
Ps, i wasn't aware of his corp setting up the scull and bones. Got proof?
S -
yknot
On another thread that attempted to discuss this .... http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/7313/1.ashx
Maximus said :
I lived through it with Barbara. She tells the truth. I hope everyone will read the piece by this remarkable woman, who was even more beautiful inside than outside. More on this another time, in some other forum.
-
Lady Lee
I have alarm bells going off in my head
The link to freeminds does not contain references.
Calling something a "brothel" usually means the men had to pay to have sex with women - there - on the premises
I would want to see some pretty good evidence to support the allegation.
Did they have a place, a residence, set aside for female staff members of Bethel? Were the female staff members dating the "brothers? Was sex ever involved? We pretty much concluded that Rutherford had his women. Did he allow the same for his "bodyguards"?
Remember the WTS is good at playing with words - even back then.
A few of the great researchers on JWD have done amazing work on the relationships Rutherford had with women. Perhaps they can do the same with this topic.
But remember there is a huge difference between "going out on the town" and "paying for sex in a brothel"
-
dawg
Satanus, there's no way to collaborate the membership of a secret organization, so we're left with the facts we can prove in an attempt to answer our questions... here's the facts, Russell used Masonic imagery, he was buried under a pyramid next to a lodge, he based predictions on the Great Pyramid among a plethora of evidence the man was a mason.
Was he a Mason? Who knows, but he damn sure used Masonic themes... I may not ever call the man a Mason, but I'd doubt it not if it were to come to light he was and find it way less than offensive that someone would say they have seen things that may indicate the man was a Mason.
But you're right, a person making a claim should have conclusive evidence before saying something is a fact... remembering all the while that this isn't a court of law, he's not being convicted of a crime; it's no crime to be a Mason.
So, here's the point, a person says such and such, offers evidence that the premise may be true, and if there is little if any refutation that the claims are incorrect; is it a mark against that individual to say that they heard such things? I think not.
True, we have plenty of proof of the wacky things that have been done by the WT leadership, no need to make things up... but, saying I've read such and such and presenting hard evidence that these things may be true, is no harm and no foul. Saying something is a absolute fact without irrefutable evidence isn't the best thing to do... but saying you've read or heard something.... I think that's different.
That said, I will continue to say that there's evidence that Russell may have been a Mason, I will present such evidence if asked for it; I will continue to say Rutherford and Russell may have been womanizers and in the case of Rutherford a drunk-I feel such evidence must be considered.
In the case of this brothel, it may be true but the evidence is way too thin... (hearsay).. yet look again at Russell's connection with the Masons... pretty hard evidence there to present that evidence. -
Awakened07
Wait.
There's talk of a rumor in a 1978 book, by a credible witness, now dead. And someone else who knew the witness, says she was a good person.
This reminds of something else....
Hmm....
That's it! - - I'll choose to take this on faith. Tadaa! Any JWs saying I'm wrong, I'll just tell them they don't have faith like I do. Who needs evidence.
Solved.