Why do you put up with crap off your JW famlies?

by dawg 78 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  John Doe

  Dawg, you're full of crap. You would learn more about my situation by listening instead of telling me what my situation is. I haven't been to a meeting in close to 10 years. My family does not shun nor confront me. As I said, we respect each other's beliefs and it is a non issue. Once again you're trying to impose your view of the world on me and my situation, when you are patently wrong.

  How is it working for me? None of my brothers and sisters are still active. I have directly told them I think jw's are a controlling cult without truth. We haven't discussed it further in over a year. Example is a more powerful motivator, for my family at least, than direct commands. I am doing pretty damned well, thank you very much. I have been shunned by no one, and I've completed a double major in difficult subject areas. I'm currently in my second year of law school. How about you?

  Let's get one thing straight. I'm not attacking you or your methods--I'm defending my own. You come here calling me a coward, yet you say I'm picking fights. That doesn't fly.
• 

  John Doe

  I read where a poster had his mother say he was an idiot and didn't love... he was stating his point and that made me proud... but how is is many of you allow your families to not even know what the hell you are really thinking. And what concerns me most, is that many of you have spouses that don't even know your real feelings... how can you live your lives as one giant lie when you know you are the one that has the real truth?

  You've claimed you did not come out on the attack and that you do not think you have the truth all the time. Let's look at one excerpt from your first post here. You have accused people of living a lie, of being cowardly, and you've claimed that you know you have the "real truth." Seems to me that's a direct contradiction of your later claims.
• 

  Fadeout

  dawg: Are you really going to sit here and tell all us ex-JWs that your families don't confront YOU about this JW mess?

  Yes.

  The one that did now agrees with me.

  The DFed and shunned family members I have continued to associate with, at my initiation because they try to be good and avoid me, and I've made clear that their standing in the eyes of an organization of men means nothing to me.

  I am not DFed but I am not hounded due to my effective fade so I have free communication with those both inside and outside the box.

  dawg: GET this point folks, you are alienated yourself if you can't say what you feel, it's them that has that power over you not vice versa.

  We are getting into a subjective philosophical/ethical area here, but I don't think that it is always the right thing to "say what you feel", and there are plenty of examples that could be introduced to demonstrate that.
• 

  Mickey mouse

  Dawg, I gotta say that the emotional manipulation in your posts reads one hell of a lot like reading an issue of the WT.

  You know what, if someone actually came up with a good plan of how to make a real impact on the borg I'd be happy to stand up and cause my family pain for the greater good. I have actually asked before why there is no cooperation amongst former JW's...the "herding cats" analogy is a good one. I'm not going to blow my life apart for no gain. Not yet anyhow.

  Mickey.
• 

  dawg

  Doe says "I have directly told them I think jw's are a controlling cult without truth". Read your last few posts, find the contradictions... you're going to law school?
  
  And please, don't throw your education around, I'm not impressed with that-it's called an appeal to authority fallacy... I was just accepted to law school this year (UGA grad), if I can find the way, I'll go.
• 

  dawg

  As far as the truth goes about the borg... yes, the evidence is overwhelming I do have that truth... as far as the truth about life... I'm open
• 

  John Doe

  Doe says "I have directly told them I think jw's are a controlling cult without truth". Read your last few posts, find the contradictions... you're going to law school?

  Feel free to support your assertions with quotes, as I have mine. The "contradictions" only exist in your head, because you're too stubborn or too dimwitted to understand what I'm saying. I'm not using my education as a qualification, I'm using it as an example of how I'm living clearly against WTBS standards but am not being shunned. Only the insecure would see otherwise. Furthermore, "appeal to authority" is not a fallacy. A legitimate appeal to authority is a relevant basis for argument. Why do you think expert witnesses must give their educational background and experience?
• 

  dawg

  Mickey, read all posts, then reply... I've already stated there are many ways to confront that are just as effective.
  
  What I'm seeing here is people that are saddened by their actions and are throwing their crap on me. Look at all posts and see if you can find anything useful that may help you get your family out.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Dawg, I admire your stand for speaking up. I have spoken up a bit more slowly
  and a bit more quietly. Everyone has their opinions and situations. I recognize that
  a mind-control cult would strain the loyalty of my wife and mother if I said too much
  too quickly. I was a member of that mind-control cult, so I know that they might
  win the loyalty test and I might lose.

  I really don't think it is fair to my mother (my wife has to not shun me) that they
  would do that to her, making her shun her son like that because he isn't thinking
  like a mind-controlled member anymore.

  Plus, putting up with some crap, many get more anti-JW information out there than
  if they just said what they thought they needed to say. You asked about a letter to
  Dad awhile back, saying he wouldn't read it most likely. My mother would read anything
  I send her, so I could keep that going by not attacking WTS too heavily all at once.
• 

  dawg

  Doe, let's start with the threat.
  
  Dawg, we all have our own methods. I'll guarantee you would not call me a coward to my face.
  
  Doe, that's a threat, that you think I wouldn't have the nerve to say what I think to your face, and if I did, just what would you plan on doing...those are fighting words where I come from, but you don't get it as you then say. "What threat?"
  
  Then you state...
  
  "Bravery has nothing to do with JW issues. Furthermore, my family knows my position. Out of mutual respect for each other's beliefs, we don't try to push them on each other. That's a concept you seem to not understand".
  
  And you continue...
  
  "I am not outspoken. I never claimed to be. What I said is my family knows my position. I have told them what I think of JW policies. At the same time, I'm not on a rampage to make them adopt my beliefs, nor do I claim to have a monopoly on being right. I take offense at your words because they are judgmental, narrow minded, and not constructive".
  
  Then you state...
  
  "I have directly told them I think jw's are a controlling cult without truth".
  
  I have never spoken any words this harsh to my family.... yet you're not outspoken... You contradict yourself and if you don't see it, then I'm sorry for you.
  
  Then the fallacies continue as you compare two unlike things and attack character...
  
  Only the insecure would see otherwise. (ad hominem) Furthermore, "appeal to authority" (this is in fact a fallacy) is not a fallacy. A legitimate appeal to authority is a relevant basis for argument. Why do you think expert witnesses must give their educational background and experience?
  
  You are not in court, and you are no expert on the subject we are discussing. You brought up your college degree as if it was relevant to this conversation, clearly it isn't and I doubt you were using it to show that you now go up against JW teachings as you threw it up in my face and asked me what I have achieved. Now, who's insecure.