Damn Gnat. that's some hard shit you're going through, and while I can see why you remain silent in cases like that, your son I mean... and if your family is as crazy as you describe, and having heard from you and knowing just how rational you are, then you get a damn pass.
I hope things work out better for you in the future, cause that's some harsh crap you're dealing with there.
Why do you put up with crap off your JW famlies?
by dawg 78 Replies latest jw experiences
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dawg
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OUTLAW
Dawg..My man..Jgnat is a good example of what some people have to go through.....And.....Not everyone is as strong as Jgnat..She really is an exception and she`s never been a Dub..................We have alot of beat up people here..They need to heal,before they can go back to war..........Alot of people need a pass..It will make them stronger......Something to think about my friend..........
...OUTLAW -
buckster
I hear the usual witless mantras about armageddon and the new system but really do not get crap from them anymore. No memorial invites anymore either. It is necessary to let them know just how upset you get when they try to get pushy. At this point they don't want to hear my side of anything so they tip toe gently around things. I have my children trained to rat out any witness crap that might be thrown at them. Relatives dare not speak any witness B.S. to my kids as we are very on top of it. Association with witness relatives is not often but it happens occcasionally. I am in what seems to be a rare circumstance of not having been DFed for some reason. They would have plenty of reasons if they were ever in pursuit.
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dawg
That was interesting Buckster...
Outlaw, surly you have to know that Gnat's situation is a rare one, and I know there are certain circumstances where the theory doesn't apply. But for the most part, I'm on the mark, we all lost something when we spoke out. -
cognac
Hey Dawg... I totally agree with you. It's one thing to heal and get better and then deal with it. Or, learn more before dealing with it... I definitely think there are some valid reasons why there are some that choose to either deal with it later or not in a specific situation. Take me for example. Right now I'm keeping my big fat stinken mouth shut because of 2 reasons: 1. I'm making a specific point with my family. I'm showing them that I should be able to say anything to them without being judged. It's taking awhile to make that point, however, they are coming around a bit. Once I make that point clear to them, I plan on saying more. 2. I've chosen to wait until I more to say anything more to my husband. I feel strongly that once we move and are away from this kh where he grew up in, he will be a lot more relaxed and lazy regarding the truth. I think now he's just in it because he's so close to his friends. It just really makes me sad at the idea of people who back down and choose to never to or say anything. People who let the JWs continually walk all over them and don't do anything about it. Doing that can hurt a persons spirit, ruin there love of life, and make them bitter. People grow and become stronger when they have self respect and a love for themselves. It's difficult to have that if you are acting like a coward. I'm glad you have brought this up. I wondered for a moment if I was acting like a coward. Then, I reminded myself of what I was trying to do and the steps that I needed to take in order to accomplish what it was that I needed to do. It's not always that your acting like a coward when not saying something. However, this is a nice, loving reminder for us to honestly evaluate ourselves so that we can grow and flourish as wonderful people. If we step back and not try to take offense, this criticism, even though it can be difficult to hear, can be really help us or be a really good reminder for us. Like another poster said, Dawg was not directing this at somebody specific. He's not saying these things to hurt us. He's saying these things for our own benefit.
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cognac
PS> Sorry, the darn formatting thing isn't working...
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jgnat
You know, Dawg, I don't know if my life is that exceptional. People everywhere are dealing with insanity in one form or another. This is my concern with the one-size-fits-all approach. Hey, there are definite circumstances where you can speak your mind and hopefully snap a family member out of stupidity. It's just in my experience, people are not that willing to give up their view of reality, no matter how twisted it might be. Here are some examples where an exiting JW may want to keep his doubts to himself:
- In a dependent situation (i.e. a child still at home)
- They are married to a JW and have dependent children. (I think GoingGoingGone has done a stellar job of walking the line of keeping her integrity while gently leading her children OUT of the society)
- They are entangled through business relationships.
- Their entire family and social network are JW's, and they haven't built up a regular network of friends yet.
- Ageing parents. Your newfound knowledge would repudiate their lifetime of work, and put them in to immediate social and economic collapse.
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Carlos_Helms
In hindsight, I'm going to have to back Mr Dawg on this one. I've changed my tune a little as I realized that there are as many circumstances as there are people in the situation. Nevertheless, it's a "pay me now or pay me later" situation with family members. I'm probably better than most at concealing true feelings about someone or something; but even I can't hide them indefinitely. Is it better for people to be suspicious of your position than to know who you are and what you stand for straight up?
Mr Dawg and Mr Buckster no doubt have personality types conducive to a "don't mess with me" approach - and, consequently, family members or associates who are afraid to mess with them. It's a matter of respect...and respect is situational. Ray Franz and many others have my respect - not for their sheer physical presence - but for their sincerity and intellectual presence. Whatever it is, the respect was probably earned ahead of time. But it isn't the end of the world if you aren't already respected. Consider the audience and go out and earn it. Slowly or all-at-once, it doesn't matter. At the end of the day (and regardless of what people say) all anybody wants is a little respect.
Not everyone will have a strong or intimidating physical presence. It's not necessary. Jesus won people over by his approach: gentle when needed, direct when required. Even the Pharisees respected him. Jesus didn't go out looking for a Pharisee to fight...the Pharisees came looking for him - and he was ready. Thing is, Jesus had confidence and never vacillated - and that scared the bejeezus out of them. His strength wasn't in his physical power, but in the knowledge of his rightness. I've found that the watchtower's power is founded on it's people's weakness. It counts on mamby-pambies, in OR out. There is a vicarious thrill amongst JWs when we whine and moan because we're not completely weaned from mother's tit and we're cranky about it. Regardless of what it says, it's a parasitic relationship. It has little use for strong people who take a stand for what is right. It has zero use for people who don't need it.
Like the Pharisees, even knowledgeable people are sensitive to their own hypocrisy. Like Mr Dawg, I see the hypocrisy in the JW version of "love" - which is nothing but a world-wide, addict/enabler, conditional "love" dependency relationship that seven-million people drool all over themselves about. It's complete and unadulterated BS.
Carlos -
winnower
Dawg,
More than anyone, I hold ALL the elders responsible for this. Especially those who know the real truth and sit on the fence. They are hypocrites of the worst kind! They are in a position of authority to be able to do something, to gently guide these people into seeing the lies. And yet, these elders do nothing but cover their own hides! These are the ones who will be blood-guilty because they did not help the sheep, but continued to act as agents for the wolves. These are your goats!
While there is still time, and while there are still small meetings and opportunity, these elders have a responsibility. I challenge all of them to expose this blasphemy! I encourage all of them to pray and ask for Holy Spirit guidance to talk to those who have been entrusted to their care. Elders...repent of the lies you have repeated to the sheep and show them how wrong this organization is and that they are being led to the slaughter! You will all be blood-guilty for these people if you do not take a stand and act now. You are all committing the unforgivable sin of blasphemy every time you repeat that Watchtower drivel and lies.
You elders are the very ones who have broken up families and caused so much torment among the innocent with your unconscionable made up rules and judicial committees! This is your moment of redemption. Don't let it pass you by. When its too late, you will see what you have done and go the way of Judas. There is a short window of opportunity now. Will you continue to be liars and cowards and blasphemers?
And what of those elders that are "truly misguided"? There is no such thing. Those who "do not see the lies" do not want to see them because they are reveling in their corrupt power. They like bossing people around. They enjoy the groveling at their feet. They are truly wicked in heart and spirit. Their ego is at stake. There is nothing misguided about that! They actually, deep down, enjoy having the power to inflict pain and heartache. It makes them feel important. They are without compassion. They are for the most part dum sumbitches, but power compensates them, in some perverted way, for their ignorance. They get their thrills from "pulling a scheme" of deception over on someone. They use their authority to get people to do their bidding. Knowing they have been put in a position to make or break you, puts you at their disposal and at their command. They are not misguided. They are users and deceivers for their own selfish motives and self aggrandizement.
Of course the society and GB hold the greatest responsibility for promoting this garbage, but they are too far removed from the populous. They are taking direct orders from satan and they will go into everlasting destruction for it.
The elders and those closest to the congregation body are the only ones who have this opportunity for redemption and the short window of time to accomplish this.
And for those who still have friends and family as captives, do you dare speak?
Jude 1:
22 Be merciful to those who doubt; 23 snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.
Dawg,
I wish we could all snatch our loved ones from the fire. There are many different ways to handle the matter. What works for one may not work for another. But fact is, when the sheep and goats are separated, all WILL have to take a stand. To those on the sidelines, I say "Why not put forth an effort now while you can still possibly have some influence?"
Sometimes I think people do not stand up for the truth because they have some vested interest in going along with the lie. Maybe JW daddy still helps with the car payments. Maybe JW grandmother babysits for your kids. Maybe JW brother has most influence in the family and will turn all against you if you stand up for truth. Maybe your employment depends on it because your boss is JW. I think many do not speak because they need these people to "help them" or to "do something for them"; there is some sort of personal gain involved. Oh they can excuse it away, but deep down, there is some monetary need, or advantage at stake, or even a fear of independence. Some people will even say they keep silent out of altruistic motives. There is never a need to make a scene. All you need do is point out a scripture or two and leave them to think about it. Some keep silent out of a feigned "kindness" to keep the peace. But what of your own "peace"? What kind of religion does this to people? It is evil. It is from satan. If the truth sets you free, then why are all you all in slavery?
As long as anyone accepts shunning, they are still giving their personal power over to the org.
You may disassociate yourself from the org, but they still hold their power over you by turning your friends and family against you. And when you plead with family for acceptance or to try to help them understand the lie, their abusive behavior is still representative of the borg continuing to clobber you. They are still wielding power over you. They have a long arm.
mark 8: 37
What good would it do to get everything you want and lose you, the real you? What could you ever trade your soul for?
Isn't it harder to live a lie?
Lately, it's been in print to "be ready to do whatever the watchtower dictates." You know the noose is about to get tighter. At some point along the way, you know you are going to have to take a stand and drop out. Why not do it now when you could possibly plant a few doubts to others as you go? Those who do look up to you, may take some note. Maybe just a word or two without arguing the trivial matters like dates (that's all a distraction). The real issue is that they are barking orders in god's name and usurping Jesus.
As long as anyone is living a life of pretense, there can be no real love or trust. They speak lies and believe lies. They are being controlled. There is no genuine love when, at a moments notice, some infringement can cut you out of the family.
Jeremiah 9:
4 "Beware of your friends;
do not trust your brothers.
For every brother is a deceiver, [ a ]
and every friend a slanderer.5 Friend deceives friend,
and no one speaks the truth.
They have taught their tongues to lie;
they weary themselves with sinning.6 You [ b ] live in the midst of deception;
in their deceit they refuse to acknowledge me,"
declares the LORD.
...OUTLAW