(How) Does Truth Set Free?

by Narkissos 44 Replies latest jw friends

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Terry,

    From our previous interaction on this board I have long understood that you can only argue with one "half" of your mind at a time... the other half shows when you are not arguing.

    I believe our "nature" (a particularly ill-chosen word as far as man is concerned, since "culture" as "anti-nature" is very much a part of it) is as much "fictional" as it is "real"... the sapiens sapiens aspect of homo, precisely, makes "us" equidistant to "being" and "non-being," "fact" and "fiction," "life" and "death"...

    "Risk" of every kind is very much a part of it.

    Against from the Prologue of Zarathustra:

    Man is a rope stretched between the animal and the Superman- a rope over an abyss.
    A dangerous crossing, a dangerous wayfaring, a dangerous looking-back, a dangerous trembling and halting.
    What is great in man is that he is a bridge and not a goal: what is lovable in man is that he is an over-going and a down-going.
    I love those that know not how to live except as down-goers, for they are the over-goers.
    I love the great despisers, because they are the great adorers, and arrows of longing for the other shore.
    I love those who do not first seek a reason beyond the stars for going down and being sacrifices, but sacrifice themselves to the earth, that the earth of the Superman may hereafter arrive.
    I love him who liveth in order to know, and seeketh to know in order that the Superman may hereafter live. Thus seeketh he his own down-going.
    I love him who laboureth and inventeth, that he may build the house for the Superman, and prepare for him earth, animal, and plant: for thus seeketh he his own down-going.
    I love him who loveth his virtue: for virtue is the will to down-going, and an arrow of longing.
    I love him who reserveth no share of spirit for himself, but wanteth to be wholly the spirit of his virtue: thus walketh he as spirit over the bridge.
    I love him who maketh his virtue his inclination and destiny: thus, for the sake of his virtue, he is willing to live on, or live no more.
    I love him who desireth not too many virtues. One virtue is more of a virtue than two, because it is more of a knot for one's destiny to cling to.
    I love him whose soul is lavish, who wanteth no thanks and doth not give back: for he always bestoweth, and desireth not to keep for himself.
    I love him who is ashamed when the dice fall in his favour, and who then asketh: "Am I a dishonest player?"- for he is willing to succumb.
    I love him who scattereth golden words in advance of his deeds, and always doeth more than he promiseth: for he seeketh his own down-going.
    I love him who justifieth the future ones, and redeemeth the past ones: for he is willing to succumb through the present ones.
    I love him who chasteneth his God, because he loveth his God: for he must succumb through the wrath of his God.
    I love him whose soul is deep even in the wounding, and may succumb through a small matter: thus goeth he willingly over the bridge.
    I love him whose soul is so overfull that he forgetteth himself, and all things are in him: thus all things become his down-going.
    I love him who is of a free spirit and a free heart: thus is his head only the bowels of his heart; his heart, however, causeth his down-going.
    I love all who are like heavy drops falling one by one out of the dark cloud that lowereth over man: they herald the coming of the lightning, and succumb as heralds.
    Lo, I am a herald of the lightning, and a heavy drop out of the cloud: the lightning, however, is the Superman.-
  • Terry
    Terry

    Terry,

    From our previous interaction on this board I have long understood that you can only argue with one "half" of your mind at a time... the other half shows when you are not arguing.

    So, I do okay for a half-wit?

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Terry,

    As far as I can tell your wit is remarkably unaffected.

    What I meant (as you perfectly know) is that your rationalistic "philosophy" misses a lot of what you are -- just because it doesn't leave room for the ambiguities and contradictions which are very much a part of your "nature" as well as mine.

  • Terry
    Terry

    What I meant (as you perfectly know) is that your rationalistic "philosophy" misses a lot of what you are -- just because it doesn't leave room for the ambiguities and contradictions which are very much a part of your "nature" as well as mine.

    I love you too!

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    Nark,

    Not haveing read every post, I would like to say.

    Or ask? Did the original writer(s) speak from any authority? Did they thus know this "truth" and were they set "free"? Did thier or his statement reflect religoius indoctrination as to what the all important "truth" was? Were they free? and in what sense were they free by knowing something they classified as truth? Basically I see it as a statement tainted by an indoctrinated mind and lacking in anything of real sustanance and filled with assumptions of the writer and reader as well to make any sort of meaning out of it.

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    freedom from superstitious nonsense like hell fire etc. But slavery to the FDS

  • aligot ripounsous
    aligot ripounsous

    Narkissos,

    We may never know what Truth is, unless God, if He exists, let us know, maybe one day. For the time being Jesus' words assure us that there is a truth but He indeed doesn't tell us much about it. If I ever know anything, one of the best things I know is that, like pudding, I proved the veracity of at least some aspects of the JWs' teachings in the most practical way since I stopped smoking during the time I was *studying* with them, 30 years ago. I know all their shortcomings and yet I'm grateful to their truth for having set me free from tobacco addiction and being still here to bear witness to it. (between you and me : you know that the last volume issued next thursday with Le Monde is HUME, the empiricist, let's not miss it !)

  • VoidEater
    VoidEater

    I agree with stilla.

    The Truth (whatever that points to) frees the individual from superstitious grovelling at the feet of the (old) Law.

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    Agreed - Truth frees from superstition. As religion has progressed (particularly since scientific education) they have become less barbaric and superstitious.

    Jesus (or was it Paul's) Truth attempted to free Jews from the regulation and superstitions of the Mosaic Law. However, Christianity quickly slipped back into it. I feel JW's are very superstitious. "If I pray this will happen. If good happened it must have been from God,if bad, the Devil. If I don't attend a meeting Armageddon may come and I miss out on some important information."

    I tend to agree with Terry. We can empirically test and prove physical things at a scientific level - gravity accelerates at 9.8m/sec2. But there is no provable body of religious Truth. We cannot even prove God or an afterlife. A belief may or may not be truth, because it cannot be proven.

    "Whoever wants to save his life/soul will lose it, whoever loses his life/soul will save it." Is it about losing something outward and concrete (like wealth) to access some "inner" or "spiritual" way of being, or getting rid of a mental representation of self to get "real"? I would say both, depending on where we happen to be on the path of life.

    These are points to ponder, but not truths. What works for one does not work for another. Genetics, personality, tastes, culture all affect how we value the inner:outer balance. My wife will never find spiritual discussion as interesting or fulfilling as I do. This does not make her less enlightened or less free, it just makes her different. Mystics, gurus etc like to gain prestige by claiming that their rejection of the physical makes them more advanced spiritual beings. But does the extreme end of the scale - a monk meditating for years alone in a cave - really make the person more enlightened and free? Doesn't it just mean they are boring people that are wasting the short time they have alive on earth.

  • Rapunzel
    Rapunzel

    "Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." - Andre Gide

    "There are truths on this side of the Pyranees, which are falsehoods on the other." Blaise Pascal

    "Chase after the truth like all hell and you'll free yourself, even though you never touch its coattails." Clarence Darrow

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