Biblical evidence against 1914

by Kosonen 32 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  jwblog

  I'M SOO GLAD that I was able to see that the whole "apple eating story explains the whole world" thing is retarded when I was 9 years old, because if I had to do this the hard way, it would have taken me until 40 to get the hell out of the borganization. :) I really appreciate all the hard and good work on how everything else is crap too, I thought some may appreciate the KISS approach too. Bring_the_Light

  The "apple" eating story has nothing to do with an apple. A root stock represents its foundation, or the foundation of the family. The tree represents the family, and the branches represent the offspring from the family. A tree that grows knowledge is no where in existance so it represents the "fruitage of the spirit" or the actual learning of good and evil by humans.
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  Terry

  The Persians revised their chronology when Xerxes faked his own death and used his throne name, "Artaxerxes" to claim he was a different king. The Persians were brilliant and paid Greek historians to write their history to fool the Greeks, namely, Herodotus and Xenophon. Ever wonder why the major Greek historians always write about Persian history in such detail. Likely the Jews helped, but the Persians pull one over on the Greeks.

  How would you support the above with references if asked?

  Especially the part about Xerxes faking his own death and calling himself ARTAxexes?
• 

  jwblog

  How would you support the above with references if asked?

  Especially the part about Xerxes faking his own death and calling himself ARTAxexes?

  There is a wealth of information on the internet in order to research this claim. I would never make such a claim if I could not prove that it is true.
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  digderidoo

  Thanks JC for your information. I wonder what i am letting myself in for.

  Paul
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  digderidoo

  Ok here's where i am at before i go to bed and would value input from anyone with an interest in the matter.

  I have looked into VAT4956 and found this link http://home.no/phscs/annet/JWchronology.html. Here it says how VAT4956 speaks of a solar eclipse on the 28th May 585BCE which it dates as the 31st year of Nebuchadnezar. This therefore places Nebuchadnezar's reign as starting in 616BCE, therefore placing the destruction of Jerusalem at 597BCE.

  To me, it seems there are so many errors on VAT4956, that it should be disputed. If this was given in evidence in a Court of Law it would be thrown out. JC could you explain to me why you rely on VAT4956 when errors have been found? This said i am not done with it yet.

  I have also come across Strm Kambys 400 and will be looking into this over the coming days.

  Paul
• 

  Terry

  How would you support the above with references if asked?

  Especially the part about Xerxes faking his own death and calling himself ARTAxexes?

  There is a wealth of information on the internet in order to research this claim. I would never make such a claim if I could not prove that it is true.

  In all that "wealth of information" I've found_____nothing___so far.

  Can you give me something?

  Or.....was it really merely assertion? Inquiring minds want to know!

  I REPEAT:

  The Persians revised their chronology when Xerxes faked his own death and used his throne name, "Artaxerxes" to claim he was a different king. The Persians were brilliant and paid Greek historians to write their history to fool the Greeks, namely, Herodotus and Xenophon. Ever wonder why the major Greek historians always write about Persian history in such detail. Likely the Jews helped, but the Persians pull one over on the Greeks.

  How would you support the above with references if asked?

  Especially the part about Xerxes faking his own death and calling himself ARTAxexes?
• 

  jwblog

  In all that "wealth of information" I've found_____nothing___so far.

  Can you give me something?

  Or.....was it really merely assertion? Inquiring minds want to know!

  I REPEAT:

  There is no evidence of it. Why would anyone try to fool anyone else with their chronology? Were they ever aware of the fact that people would be doing research as yourself in order to prove whether a claim is true or false?

  History is written according to the historian whom wrote it. The only book of history that is reliable is the word of God. It is written that God will prove all men to be liars.

  I cannot give you what does not exist. Wait until the Father proves everything to humans Himself. Nation rose against nation it has been proven by world wars 1 and 2. That is fulfillment of prophecy. However, the end was not at that given time as Jesus Christ wrote.
• 

  JCanon

  How would you support the above with references if asked?

  Especially the part about Xerxes faking his own death and calling himself ARTAxexes?

  Well, there are a few things. One is an extant text dated to year 38 of an "Arses who is called Artaxerxes." Here's the whole excerpt to give you an idea of how these kings all had double names:

  http://www.livius.org/cg-cm/chronicles/bchp-arses/arses_2.html (Arses aka Artaxerxes)

  Unfortunately comparison with the dating formulae of the

  Astronomical Diaries does not help very much. In these formulae the name of the father of the reigning king is never mentioned. The formula used here is: PN ša PN2 (LUGAL) MU-šú na-bu-ú, "PN, who is called king PN2." See for example AD I, p. 152, no. -346, left edge: MU 12.KAM mÚ-ma-kuš šá mÁr-tak-šat-su LUGAL MU-šú na-bu-ú, "year 12 of Ochos, who is called king Artaxerxes (III)"; MU 38.KAM mÁr-šú LUGAL šá mÁr-tak-šat-su LUGAL MU-šú [na-bu-ú], "year 38 of king Arses, who is called king Artaxerxes (II)" (AD I, p. 136, no. -366 B lower edge; on tablet A left edge the title LUGAL, "king," added to both names, has been omitted in both cases); mÚ-ma-kuš šá mDa-a-ri-muš MU-šú SA 4, "Ochos, who is called Darius (II)" (AD I, p. 66, no. -391 B obv. 1).

  Sorry for the font size issue. Thus for all the Persian kings after Artaxerxes we know their alternative names from extant texts:

  Darius II was Nothus, Artaxerxes II was Mnemon, Artaxerxes III was Nothus, and Darius III was Cadomannus. Artaxerxes I ruled for 41 years and per the Bible is the same king as Artaxerxes. Thus the extant text where an "Arses [Xerxes] also known as Artaxerxes" is dated to year 38, it would tend to confirm that Xerxes' alternative name was Artaxerxes. This does not prove he's the same king, but helps us understand why the Bible calls the successor of Darius I "Artaxerxes"; that is, using his alternative thone name rather than his personal name. The Bible never mentions any Xerxes and places Artaxerxes on the throne of Persia in the sixth year of Darius:

  EZRA 6:14,15: 14 And the older men of the Jews were building and making progress under the prophesying of Hag´gai the prophet and Zech·a·ri´ah the grandson of Id´do, and they built and finished [it] due to the order of the God of Israel and due to the order of Cyrus and Da·ri´us and Ar·ta·xerx´es the king of Persia. 15 And they completed this house by the third day of the lunar month A´dar, that is, in the sixth year of the reign of Da·ri´us the king.

  This actually gives us the accession year of Darius' successor in his sixth year. At the same time, history confirms that Xerxes succeeded Darius to the throne and he is famous for attacking Greece. In that regard, we compare Daniel 11:2 which addresses this. The fourth king after Cyrus, which would be Darius' successor is confirmed to become the richest ever king and to fight against Greece:

  “Look! There will yet be three kings standing up for Persia, and the fourth one will amass greater riches than all [others]. And as soon as he has become strong in his riches, he will rouse up everything against the kingdom of Greece."

  The 4th king after Cyrus is the successor to Darius.

  We add this historical note regarding when Darius came to the throne. From Plutarh, Lives, Themistocles:

  Thucydides and Charon of Lampsacus say that Xerxes was dead, and that Themistocles had an interview with his son; but Ephorus, Dinon, Clitarchus, Heraclides, and many others, write that he came to Xerxes. The chronological tables better agree with the account of Thucydides, and yet neither can their statements be said to be quite set at rest.

  There was always a huge controversy as to who was ruling when Themistocles fled to Persia. Plutarch actually gives a detail account of the intervew of Themistocles, but it is before Xerxes, not Artaxerxes!. Though Thucydides is considered more reliable than either Herodotus or Xenophon, Thucydides got his information from a letter circulated in Persia by Themistocles, who is in the middle of this conspiracy, and thus is not an inpartial source or independent source of who was ruling.

  When we consider just these things, though there is more, all is explained if we understand that Themistocles fled to Persia seeking asylum with Xerxes and then insisted upon a year to learn the language himself and likely visited Persepolis where it appears two kings succeeded Darius, Xerxes and Artaxerxes, when in fact, Artaxerxes was simply the extra local throne name for Xerxes, which seems to have spawned the idea that if Xerxes wanted to, he could get away with claiming he died, faking his own death, and that the new king "Artaxerxes", his son was now on the throne. Of course, it was already known his eldest son was Darius, so as part of the propaganda, some convenient death of Darius had to be part of the story. So they came up with a violent death for Xerxes to appease to the Greeks who wanted him killed after his invasion of Greece, basically that his own son had him killed and then the brother of Darius, out of revenge, killed his brother and now was legitimately on the throne. It worked, except for some reason the letter leaked in Greece that Themistocles wrote to the king was to Artaxerxes and not Xerxes and too many historians knew that Xerxes was definitely still ruling when Themistocles fled there. Essentially, they argued back and forth when exactly did Xerxes die and Artaxerxes succeed him, but never figured out it was a scam of Themistocles and that Xerxes had faked his death.

  The most obvious confirmation of this are the tombs at Naqshi-Rustam. Even though a brand new tomb for "Xerxes" was created after the first there, Artaxerxes is buried after Darius I, followed by Darius II. So Xerxes is skipped for tomb #2. Of course, that would tend to prove that the king succeeding Darius I was indeed a king named "Artaxerxes" but the same king also known as Xerxes.

  There is also that "hand thing" going on with Artaxerxes that becomes an interesting identification item in the artwork at Persepolis. When you try to compare the faces of Xerxes at Persepolis with that of Artaxerxes, you cannot because all the faces are hammered off, except for one scene. But Artaxerxes became known as "Artaxerxes, Longimanus" because he had this longer right hand that became his trademark. Xerxes is shown at Persepolis to be displaying his right hand, held vertically, thus showing maximum surface area, sculped from both sides, so that in one scene you see the palm and the other the back of the hand. In another scene where he is behind the throne of Darius I, though, he is seen with his hand holding onto the back of the throne. This suggests he is connected to the throne and thus the co-ruler, which was the case. Question is, WHY did he change that more symbolic hand gesture to turn his hand sidewise? If Xerxes and Artaxerxes were the same king, then the change in hand position is understandable if the larger scene would be seen at eye level. That is, the sculpters were showing the famous longer hand off for posteriity.

  There's more but at this point its fairly difficult not to see through to what actually transpired. It was a smart political move, it worked and since the Persians had control of the records of Egypt, Babylon and Assyria, revisions were easy and universal. Since this involved primarily Greek politics though, Greek historians were presumably hired to reflect the specific revisions and counterintelligence by the Persians; thus Herodotus records the history of Persia and so does Xenophon. Over time, the revisions distorted the Persian Period by some 82 years at its greatest discrepancy point, which the 1st of Cyrus.

  http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/xerxeshand.html (Xerxes hand position)

  http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/nehemiah.html (Nehemiah at Persepolis)

  http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/dariusxerxespalace.JPG (Xerxes at Palace of Darius)

  The corrected timeline text covers more evidence. But the above is sufficient to support the Biblical limitation of the rule of Darius I to just 6 years and explain why Xerxes is called "Artaxerxes."

  http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/709guide.html

  JC
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  JCanon

  What is a "BTG"? And what attack on religion are you talking about? Do you think one of the worlds strongest nation (United States) who represent themselves as a "christian" nation would turn on religion? The United Nations is an organization of Peace, so how are they the ones that cause massive destruction? Did not the United States defy the United Nations and attack Iraq anyway?

  Sure. If the circumstances warrant it. Look what they did in Texas? The only thing keeping the law from shutting down religion is an accusation of crime. If they are seen as being used for world terrorism or facilitating some other conspiracy, then the government will have a legal right to shut them down. Right now the WTS and the Catholic Church are considered arms of the "Illuminati" who use religion to carry out covert operations.

  JWs were persecuted by Germans not because of their beliefs but because they were believed to be financed by the Jewish underground. Our first response is to consider this ridiculous, but you can check old newspapers from Russell's time when he first got started and he never, ever collected any money and openly admitted he was being financed by some wealthy backers. In other words, Jews had some covert purpose for an evangelical group with a charismatic leader and they financed him to create a new religion! So who was Russell working for?

  http://www.geocities.com/ed_maruyama/russell1911x.JPG (Russell1911 no collection post)

  http://www.cephas-library.com/jw/jw_jw_lds_same_origin.html (Mormons and JWs backed by Illuminati)

  So while we want to dismiss wild and unfounded accusations, when we do the research, it's not so hard. It's hard to tell people who claim Russell was a Satanist that in no way is that true when he's buried under a Satanistic symbol, the pyramid! The eye on the pyramid is the eye of Satan.

  Right now, even though considered biased, the Christian Identity Movement clearly thinks the "Illuminati" run by the Jewish international banking mafia are staging themselves to rule the world and are behind all kinds of terrorism. BTG means "Babylon the Great" which is linked with these secret societies running the UN now, like the CFR, Bilderbergers, Trilateral commission, etc.

  As well, per the Bible organizations such as the CIA/FBI are influenced and controlled by BTG as well. So in a severe showdown, if the UN makes organized religion illegal, which doesn't involve challenging individual beliefs, just not giving anyone an opportunity to use religion to exploit business or world affairs or terrorism or whatever, then it is reasonable they could do it. Just imagine the WTS in the place of the polygamist camp! The WTS is considered a cult with charismatic leadership. They are accused of child abuse and other things. IF it is clear they were cooperating with the UN for covert purposes or have been infiltrated by outside companies who use the organization for spying or anything, they could shut the religion down, confiscate their money. That's not stopping "freedom of religion" just freedom of getting a free ride from the government masked as a religion. So it could happen.

  In some countries no religious materials are allowed. Imagine those religions saying the Holocaust is a lie. Once a one-world government starts to make sense and become a necessity, then publicly expressed religion will go by the wayside. People are even now complaining about Christmas and the use of "God" connected with government offices or the courts. And it won't be the first time JWs have been jailed and shut down or their books banned because they were meddling in politics! The WTS was pro-German during WWI! That's why the leaders got thrown into jail!

  Plus look at the ECONOMIC SITUATION. America is too dependent upon oil. If there is a severe crisis and control of oil producing countries can be effected if a world-government is set up that has sovereignty over world commerce, then the US will gladly join, rather than fall behind in the economic crisis! Further, the "national debt" is owed to Illuminati banks, so if they turn on the Illuminati, accuse them of world terrorism and drug trafficking like the Christian Identity movement already claims, then those trillions of dollars can be confiscated and the national debt wiped out at the same time. There is a LOT of incentive in an economic crisis to come down on the Illuminati, which apparently is what will happen. Desperate governments with hungry people with no food and with the Illuminati seen as manipulating this crisis in the first place is reason enough to take drastric measures. And since nobody can tell which is a "good religion" or a "bad one" outlawing all of them from being legal companies makes sense. But if you take the money away from organized religion, they cease to exist.

  That is why this move by the WTS away from the home Book Studies is suspicious. The WTS is very organized at the Book Study level which could be a threat. That important level of networking will cease to exist by the 1st of the year, then everything can be monitored and controlled by a fewer key people at the congregation level, which is an effective level as well to shut down the religion.

  You can still believe whatever you want about God or evolution. You just can't incorporate into an organization, which could be seen as a political group. I think the climate is such that this could happen.

  JC
• 

  JCanon

  Hi Dig. THANK YOU for that link about the VAT4956. It is incredibly inaccurate. I can't imagine why someone would come up with this, other than knowing most people would not be able to check the facts here. It is so counter-intelligence. Here is what it says, which is nearly unbelievable: This is in no way accurate!!

  The VAT4956 is dated to 568 or 511 BCE, year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar only!! It has absolutely nothing to do with 585 BCE, which is year 20 of Nebuchadnezzar in the current chronology. This seems to be a deliberate snow-job type of post where false statements are made to fool those who will just quickly give up any inquiry. But the information is blatantly false. Why a need to connect the 585 BCE eclipse with the VAT4956? I have no idea. You can even tell superficially this is incorrect. It calls year 585 year 31 of Nebuchadnezzar. The current chronology dates year 18 to 587 BCE, a well known reference. As noted, 585 BCE would be year 20, not 31. Plus the text itself specifically is dated to year 37.

  But maybe this is counter-intelligence at work. Maybe all my posts on the VAT4956 that come up with search engines need these type of fake texts to detract from my discussions about the double-dating in the text!! If you read this and didn't know how to find any original, reliable information on the VAT4956, what would you have to counter it?

  So maybe, since the VAT4956 is central and preemptive of the current timeline, part of a counter-intelligence plan for disinformation is to snow-job the search engines with ridiculous, inaccurate information like this. It works too! 90% of the people will forget about the research, thinking they know about the text, long before seeing any hits for any double-dating or Sachs/Hunger misrepresenting about what's in the text. It's not hard to do.

  But at least if that is what is going on, it proves what some are afraid of.

  But at the same time, I use the same counter-intelligence. All my research is on the internet but you have to know how to SEARCH for it. If your search is disingenuous, you won't find anything. If you're looking for the right things, asking the right questions, then you'll find lots. The VAT4956 is to central so it's being snow-jobbed. At least that is my thought. It is effective because it will trip up 90% of the first inquirers. It's very Freemason. Plus its super difficult to actually find a copy on the net of the text of the VAT4956, as famous and central as this text is!!! Just discussing the errors here alone will take extra time, and people don't have that much time! So mixed emotions on this reference. Thanks.

  VAT 4956

  This is a cuneiform tablet containing information about astrological events, amongst them a solar eclipse we have identified as happening 28th May 585 BC. This was visible in Babylon and over large parts of the east. This makes the year 585 BC into a cardinal year, a year we know with absolute certainty. And VAT 4956 tells us that this happened in the 31th year of Nebuchadrezzar. This particular eclipse seems to be the most famous in the antique:

  What is probably the most famous eclipse of ancient times ended a five-year war between the Lydians and the Medes. These two Middle Eastern armies were locked in battle when "the day was turned into night." The sight of this total solar eclipse (the date is fixed as May 28, 585 B.C.) was startling enough to cause both nations to stop fighting at once. They agreed to a peace treaty and cemented the bond with a double marriage. The eclipse was predicted by Thales, the celebrated Greek astronomer and philosopher, but the prediction was probably not known to the warring nations.