All Things Mystical - Real or Not?

by Sirona 131 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Gill

  Simon - I agreed and felt the same as you for quite a long time.

  It wasn't until I picked up physics books again that I started to view things differently which is why I suggested you read up on up to date quantum physics.

  It's all to do with size and perspective.....all of it and the fact that there is no such thing as time.......(not wishing to sound like a DR Who fanatic here, but there really isn't, at least not in the way we view it).

  Nothing is solid, and everything is porous, depending on your size of course. The smaller you are, the more you can travel 'through' things and if you have no 'physical body', ie electricity, you can travel along and through things.

  Therefore, you see your fridge as a solid, but if you were a tachyon, you could travel through it.

  I'm trying to put this really simply though it is not, and I'm not being patronising here either, just trying to help a doubting mind see or 'feel' what it is that physics has begun to reveal.

  But, don't listen to mystics etc, just read up you quantum physics.

  Remember the question , words to the effect, that if a tree fell in a forest and nobody saw it, did a tree really fall?

  Well, if observance is what makes reality, and if this scientific theory is true, that particles behave differently when they are observed, it means that we have to be 'observing' even before we are conceived or born, and even after we die, otherwise our reality never exists. This means or at least leads to the theory that we never stop, and even never begin observing and therefore never cease to or begin to exist. Therefore the scientific theory, not mystic whoo hoo theory, but scientific theory, that we never die and never cease to exist.

  REmembering quantum physics again, and size being all important, we are but something of an energy, trapped within a bottle. When the bottle breaks then the 'spirit' is free.

  Ever see death? I'm sad to say I have. There's a certain something that escapes from the body, and the body is an empty shell. The spirit is free.

  Sound crazy? Maybe it is?

  All I know or feel, is that as tragic and heartbreaking as death is, it is not the end ..... and neither is it a beginning, but just a continuation.

  There really is nothing to fear in this life, as there is nothing that can destroy us.....whatever we really are.

  I can understand someone mocking this, but there are answers to everything, it's just knowing where to look and science is unlocking secrets that shake the current believed 'physical laws'.

  Are you sure you know what gravity really is?

  Perhaps you should research the latest findings.

  Nothing is at it seems.
• 

  White Dove

  Since I cannot prove or disprove anything, I believe in the possibilities of many things until they are proven hoaxes or untrue by science. I don't believe in things of the Bible. Science doesn't uphold much of it.

  Until I know better, I'm going to play in the spirit world for the fun of it. It just feels good:)
• 

  journey-on

  Good post, Gill.

  As I said.....it's the language we use from our particular perspective that gets everybody's feathers ruffled.

  There is so much awaiting discovery, if only we keep an open mind and IMAGINE the possibilities.
• 

  Sirona

  Simon

  Authors don't work for a living? Despite your misgivings, Gareth Knight produced a well researched book which is still studied today in university theology courses. It offers in depth interpretation of the Jewish Qabalah from a Western Mystery Tradition standpoint.

  Of course, what you do for a living is way more influential and important

  Sirona
• 

  Simon

  Authors don't work for a living? Despite your misgivings, Gareth Knight produced a well researched book which is still studied today in university theology courses. It offers in depth interpretation of the Jewish Qabalah from a Western Mystery Tradition standpoint.

  Some authors do, others perform the modern equivalent of peddling snake oil IMO.

  Of course, what you do for a living is way more influential and important

  I fail to see how that has much to do with this discussion although I have noticed that you do seem to have a tendency to take issue with and start insulting anyone who voices an opinion that contradicts your belief system ... which I find surprising given your beliefs and that you apparently want to discuss them (or is it just 'promote them'?).

  There is a good chance that if you do any online banking with a certain major UK bank or take any medication from a certain large pharmaceutical company that you will, somewhere along the chain, have directly used (or used something processed by) some of my code. Not massively influential I admit but could be considered kind-of important.
• 

  Simon

  Gill, I agree and am familiar with Quantum physics although I don't class that (real physics) as mystical ... it isn't the most obvious or intuitive branch of science.
• 

  Midget-Sasquatch

  Quantum physics has definitely challenged our notions of what can or cannot occur in "reality". Quantum entanglement is boggling, with Einstein calling it "spooky action at a distance". But I don't think there's any demonstrable connection between this phenomenon and ESP. I'm personally inclined to think that with enough controls the "hits" would hover around whats expected by chance.

  I wholeheartedly agree that mystical experiences are real. They are afterall the perceptions triggered in one's mind, by varying bursts of action potentials and fluctuating neurotransmitter levels, the same phenomenon that interprets other perceptions that are undisputed.

  However, I think Terry has a valid point. When one doesn't know the underlying cause precipitating that particular neural storm quirk, there's the chance of attributing it to something not real. Now maybe, just maybe, this purported supernatural realm , or non material intelligence, is the precipitating agent for some of those mystical experiences.

  Experiments with patients subjected to varying magnetic fields yielded some very interesting perceptions for them though: similar to mystical experiences and even those claimed by UFO abductees. Something real is triggering those experiences. Just not what the patients thought the agent to be.
• 

  Mr Ben

  Hmm this is difficult, because I am most assuredly of the conviction that that mystical experiences exist solely in the brain, but I must say at least this, as far as argumentitive techniques are concerned:

  Simon quoted Sirona:

  If you have not had a mystical experience, what do you think of this comment?

  And replied: I think it is the talk of an idiot.

  But this is a partial quote. Sirona asked both sides of the argument:

  If you have had a mystical experience do you agree with this comment?

  If you have not had a mystical experience, what do you think of this comment?

  Sirona

  Whether you agree with Sirona or not, she is at least trying to ask the question from both sides of the fence. To quote just one part of her question is unfair, even if you are sure she is wrong.

  Ben
• 

  Sirona

  I fail to see how that has much to do with this discussion although I have noticed that you do seem to have a tendency to take issue with and start insulting anyone who voices an opinion that contradicts your belief system

  Since you were throwing around insults like "idiot" its clear that what you are doing here is a psychological defense mechanism called "projection".

  Sirona
• 

  Simon

  Since you were throwing around insults like "idiot" its clear that what you are doing here is a psychological defense mechanism called "projection".

  LOL, I'm not at all 'anxious' about anything 'mystic' - "OMG, what if the mystics band together and put a curse on me, oh no ... I'm doomed! "

  Also, if you re-read what I replied you will see that the point I was making is that the quote is insulting and full of false reasoning. If someone says something insulting then I think it is fair to reply and point out how idiotic it is.

  You have now tried to turn this into personal attacks because, IMO, you are insecure about your beliefs because I suspect that deep down you know this stuff is balloney because I am pretty certain that any 'mystic experience' anyone experiences is completely in their head and however much someone wants to believe that it's real (maybe it makes them feel 'special' to get attention or make up for something lacking in their lives?) they really know that it is imagined.

  Is that why you are so defensive when someone voices their opinion that it is nothing but superstitious nonsense?

  People are free to believe whatever they want ... mystics, fairies or the force, but I am also free to point and laugh when they make claims that those of us who prefer to live in reality are somehow too lazy or stupid to 'reach their level'.