Without God - Questions?

by Blueblades 53 Replies latest jw friends

  • RAF
    RAF
    I know the answers to these type of questions, do you?

    Ok to me :
    Replace God by pure Love (= AGAPE = inconditional love = without Ego triping to be objective) and (to me) you've got God's name or let's say God's spirit in action

    So it comes out like this :

    Without pure love, what is left of morality?

    Without pure love, what purpose is there in man's life?

    If we do not believe in pure love, how can we be certain of anything? (is being certain of certain thing really important out of pure love and pure bullshit ?)

    If pure love does not exist, whom can we turn to in a time of crises?

    If there is no afterlife, who will reward virtue and punish injustice? (What's interesting in afterlife without pure love to be able to live/share happilly ?)

    If pure love (inducing compassion) not exist, what becomes of the worth and dignity of each person?

    Without pure love, how can man achieve happiness?

    Do we agree or what ?

  • LtCmd.Lore
    LtCmd.Lore

    Eesh, not the Hitler card again. I repost here:

    You seem to imply that Hitler's religious beliefs are what led him to the evil he did. So he killed all those people and started a war because of Christianity?

    What did I say that implied that?

    I'm not the one who played the 'Hitler Card'. RealOne came in here and implied that Hitler was an atheist. I simply proved him wrong.

    Neither I NOR RealOne implied that Hitler's religious beliefs or lack thereof had anything to do with the atrocoties he commited.

    I also didn't mention Christianity AT ALL, you extrapolated that into what I said all on your own.

  • LtCmd.Lore
    LtCmd.Lore

    BTW you repeat a lot of quotes there, there are actually only nine:

    Night of 11th-12th July, 1941

    "National Socialism and religion cannot exist together....
    "The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity....
    "Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things." (p 6 & 7)

    10th October, 1941, midday

    "Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure." (p 43)

    14th October, 1941, midday

    "The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity....
    "Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse....
    "...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little....
    "Christianity the liar....
    "We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State." (p 49-52)

    19th October, 1941, night

    "The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity."

    21st October, 1941, midday

    "Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer....
    "The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation....
    "Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea." (p 63-65)

    13th December, 1941, midnight

    "Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... ....
    "When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease." (p 118-119)

    14th December, 1941, midday

    "Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself....
    "Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics." (p 119 & 120)

    9th April, 1942, dinner

    "There is something very unhealthy about Christianity." (p 339)

    27th February, 1942, midday

    "It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie."
    "Our epoch in the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278)

  • hamilcarr
  • VoidEater
    VoidEater

    RAF and hamilcar: opposite ends looking at the same thing - delightful, thanks!

    RealOne says a lot of nonsense again:

    Morals? purpose? imaginary creature? without God life is useless.

    Sounds more like a sinister dependence.

    [Life is it's own purpose] you mean like Hitler!

    More like Abraham Lincoln. Or Albert Einstein. Maybe Benjamin Franklin. Helen Keller?

    [something about sin and death]

    Death, like rain, happens to the righteous and the unrighteous. In case you haven't noticed, everyone dies.

    I am here to help you understand that Jesus came to earth and died for your sins so that you may repent from your sins and believe that he was risen from the dead.

    You are here for comic relief. Although I am so wooed your calm, dignified, Christian way of speaking!

    Don't lie to me you are miserable!

    No! You are!

    [rolls eyes]

    to the Bible people who lie with the same sex are an abomination

    Here's today's lesson: list all of the "abominations" found in the Bible, and tell me that you avoid them all, or at least condemn them (mmm, shellfish...). Otherwise, your just a simple hypocrite spouting rubbish, whom I won't even chide about accepting poor translation.

    i think christianity is more wholesome than Islam cause mohummad was a murderer and the Koran teaches hate.

    Thank heaven there are no examples of warlike atrocities by men of God in the Bible! I guess it really is all in your point of view.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    There is evidence that within the U.S. strong disparities in religious belief versus acceptance of evolution are correlated with similarly varying rates of societal dysfunction, the strongly theistic, anti-evolution south and mid-west having markedly worse homicide, mortality, STD, youth pregnancy, marital and related problems than the northeast where societal conditions, secularization, and acceptance of evolution approach European norms (Aral and Holmes; Beeghley, Doyle, 2002).

    The data are conflicting

    From a Scientific American article that references your piece:

    On the other hand, Syracuse University professor Arthur C. Brooks argues in Who Really Cares (Basic Books, 2006) that when it comes to charitable giving and volunteering, numerous quantitative measures debunk the myth of "bleeding heart liberals" and "heartless conservatives." Conservatives donate 30 percent more money than liberals (even when controlled for income), give more blood and log more volunteer hours. In general, religious people are more than three times more generous than secularists to all charities, 14 percent more munificent to nonreligious charities and 57 percent more likely than a secularist to help a homeless person. In terms of societal health, charitable givers are 43 percent more likely to say they are "very happy" than nongivers and 25 percent more likely than nongivers to say their health is excellent or very good.

    Read the whole thing:

    http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=bowling-for-god&colID=13

    BTS

  • hamilcarr
    hamilcarr
    Three reasons suggest themselves: first, these problems have other causes entirely; second, secular social capital works better for such problems; third, these problems are related to what I call moral capital, or the connections within an individual between morality and behavior that are best fostered within families, the fundamental social unit in our evolutionary history that arose long before religions and governments.

    At least we can agree on the fact that a life without God doesn't necessarily imply immorality. The different results depend on the variables measured. I won't deny charity is one of the strong points of lots of churches.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    At least we can agree on the fact that a life without God doesn't necessarily imply immorality.

    Not necessarily.

    BTS

  • hamilcarr
    hamilcarr
    Not necessarily.

    Divine ambiguity

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    Divine ambiguity

    Damn, I was hoping you'd take the bait!

    BTS

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