So how do you uncult a cultist?

by easyreader1970 14 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  OnTheWayOut

  I hate to advise an adversary-type marriage.
  If she wants to play hardball and "turn you in" for saying "F" or for having doubts,
  then you have a trust problem.

  If it were me:

  I would tell her that "We are going to couples therapy."
  I would tell her that her refusal will result in her loss of spending money and use of the
  car for meetings. It would further cause her to see who knows the JW rules on
  headship. I would take over the budget and keep her so tight that she can't stand it.

  No Starbucks or nothing for her. All she would have to do to let me fade quietly is
  attend couples therapy (by a professional, not a JW elder) and learn to keep things
  about you from the elders- just let you stop going and not report you. Anything she
  reports, that would make me resort to full application of the headship principle.

  Now, I avoided that circumstance by being kind and talking to my wife about trust
  and loyalty. My wife understands that she doesn't have to report me, but that doing
  so is a violation of our trust. She knows that I have to face Jehovah (or WTS) on my
  own for my actions. A couples therapist should help her to see that.

  I know the likelihood is that she will refuse, and she will tell the elders what you are
  doing, but if you don't sin, all she can report is that she needs a ride to the hall because
  you are not coming and won't let her use the car. All she can report is that she cannot
  eat out or buy new stuff. It's not a smooth road, but neither is the one you are on.

  I am not in your situation and I can only say what I would do. I cannot say that it is
  the best thing for YOU to do.
• 

  bigmouth

  Hi easyreader. By the time I had read halfway through your post I thought,'Hmm this woman sounds manic !'Clever aren't I !? ;)
  
  Is her mood controlled with lithium ? And is she inclined to miss it out when she's up and go back when she's down ?
  
  My experience with people with bipolar disorder is that you can only begin making progress when they have become stable with their meds. and are safe in a routine.
  If they feel out of control of familiar events they panic and go in to automatic mode. e.g. the book study has changed, my husbands deviating from a familiar path etc.
  
  I'd suggest get the meds. firmly under control and enlist the elders help to 'take the curse off it'. Chances are the elders will find the whole thing too heavy and bale out. Either result could be a good thing for you.
  
  Secondly, only discuss borg stuff when you are both relaxed and always bring controversial subjects up as "I don't understand.....do you?" She wont percieve you as questioning the Society, just expressing an inability to grasp some dogma and maybe plant those seeds someone mentioned.
  
  Keep us posted,
  
  Pete
• 

  Bring_the_Light

  Use your uber-powers as the head of the household. Pull together the WTBS pubs and the Bible and study hard on how you are her grand puba. Then, when she no longer feels the need to treat you like a child, and you have her attention/respect do the other stuff these guys suggested.

  I feel for you man, you sound like a truly good man. You're in pretty much exactly the same boat as my dad was. When I was 17 and living away at college, my dad slowly suggested the marriage might not last..... I chimed in before he could even get uncomfortable and gave him my blessing. I didn't want to live there either....

  PROTECT THE KIDS. DO EVERYTHING YOU CAN TO LET THEM LIVE A NORMAL LIFE. The rest is between you, your wife and god.
• 

  rmt1

  The cultist lives inside an event horizon; all the universe rotates around their conception of themselves, and their concern, however much they insist it is agape in action, never fails to proceed only so far before turning back to themselves. There's nothing *you* do to uncult a cultist, and additionally there is nothing you *do* to uncult a cultist. All you can do is prepare yourself for the moment that something clicks in the cultist and they themselves make the opening. (try http://dangerousintersection.org/?p=217)
  
  Perhaps you can search for, locate, and make a strategic reserve of sanity in the future prospects of your children having been "raised in", but thankfully 'graduated from', the whole JW mess. I suppose there are ways to develop a special compact with each child, individually, which triangulates, by extremely small parallax, the de facto, observable *oddity* of certain JW inanities, and your own profound reserve on their credibility. If this compact can be maintained over time, over years, the child might get through the traumatic, idealistic and emotional adolescent years without investing credence in the edifice.
  
  Since you said the children are the big factor in your decisions, do some Hamiltonian gene expression engineering: Make a family tree of all their relatives. Rate each relative on their real-world wealth. Then rate each relative on their individual gene expression to-date (I.e. in how many offspring are they already represented). Then rate each relative on their degree of cultism (use positions in the cong as a factor). Then rate each relative on their affinity, fondness, relationship to the children. Using these datapoints, try to make some best guesses on the stress vectors that each relative feels towards 'whether or not' your children remain 1) "strong" in the JWs and 2) in the JWs at all. A high gene concentration = high stress, such as if your children are her parents' only grandchildren. A low concentration = a gaussian distribution, such as if your children are only three of many.
  
  The entire edifice is based on the presumption that there will always be 'weaker ones'. If it was not based on this presumption, women would be in positions of equal power. Because it is, and because 'weaker ones' are required, it is possible for you to arrange to provide them the 'weaker ones' they need. Now, what they don't want is for 'weaker ones' to leave. No, because then there is no perceived observer of the 'strong ones' (let's call them the bourgeoise and elites of spiritual affluence, as opposed to, say, the proletariat). What they want is for enough people to be 'weaker ones', proletariat, without leaving, so that they have virtual 'worldly ones' in their own midst, inside the JW halls, that they can secretly point at and exclude.
• 

  B_Deserter

  This just further reinforced my theory that bipolar women (and possibly men) are unmarriageable. You simply cannot have a decent relationship with these women. Their affect on you is a lot like a heroine. They're always at one of two extremes. One minute they will make you feel like the luckiest guy on earth. They'll be the best wife/girlfriend you could possibly imagine. Then, without warning, they'll turn on you. There is literally nothing you can say that won't set them off. They'll make you feel like the worst person in the world. It's much, much worse than menstrual moodiness. But, by the time you start thinking of leaving them, they'll start the cycle over again, and you'll question why you ever wanted to leave. That's their heroine, that's their cocaine. They keep you addicted to the good times so you don't think about how much irreversible damage the bad times have done to you. She will not get better. She will not "mellow with age."
  
  It's a hell of a disease. They don't want to do this to you. It's just what they do. Very few people have the mental fortitude to handle it. If you didn't have any kids, I'd say leave her. Even if you do, that might be the best option. How often do you fight openly? If your kids have a fairly stable home, then it's in their best interest to provide them with that environment. If their older, it probably won't affect them as much. I was 16 when my parents separated, and it was actually a positive thing for me. I really grew as a person and probably love them both now more than when they were together, screaming at each other almost every night. Of course, my situation isn't the same as your kids, so you have to come up with something that's best for the children.