by real one 168 Replies latest jw friends
Burn
What do we do with this DD?
Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
The Romans passage doesn't say, nature reveals everything about God. But enough to make all men guilty.
nic
No. They are subjective interpretation.
Which do you lack? Power or wisdom? Or do you not have the "wisdom" to "know".
But enough to make all men guilty.
Guilty of what?
Burn
No. They are subjective interpretation.
Do you love anyone Nicolau?
Burn
Burn
Guilty of what?
Romans 1:25
For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
It doesn't matter what I believe about God (number of gods, name of gods, and so on.), I would still be a theist. Theism is a world view. Atheism is a different world view. The both have different "sub" views within them.
If you're intent on dividing mankind in two sides (I personally don't see any need for that, you might wonder why you do?), taking belief in "gods" (theoi) as the prime criterium seems a very odd choice. That puts you on the same "side" as Baal or Kali worshippers, and many Buddhists (whose religion and philosophy are more similar to yours than you may think) on the other "side"...
Even though this is largely counter-intuitive (especially from an American perspective), I would contend that belief in God is a rather secondary and undistinctive aspect of Christianity -- and that "essential Christianity" can actually outlive theism as we know it. It's no accident that the ancient Graeco-Roman world often perceived early Christians as atheoi -- as compared to the ancient notion of theoi they were "atheists" in many ways.
Re: BTS, I think there are several ways of knowing, allowing for one to be both "gnostic" and "agnostic," depending on what kind of "knowledge" is considered.
So what do you do with Romans 1?
Polite suggestions only!
Saint Paul is talking here about His concept of a God. The Romans at that time had many Gods of their own that they, in part, shared with the Greeks. As neither of them believed in each others Gods - what label were they to attach to themselves?
Saint Paul was always a believer. He spent the first part of his life believing that it was Gods will to kill Christians. Then he changed his mind and became a Christian. Who is to say that his first belief wasn’t the one his God wanted him to have and that he was deceived by the Devil? After all, wasn't it was the Jews - God's chosen people - who had Christ put to death?
His belief was subjective to his interpretation of his experiences. It is easy to say, ’I am a believer.’ But a believer in what? This is why labels fail in subjects that have no solid boundaries.
No one really knows with absolute certainty what is behind, what going on in the universe. Only, a bigot, a zealot or a fool would claim that they know the truth with certainty. Even believers admit that faith is required.
We are all just stumbling in the dark, trying to find certainty, in the hope that it will help us avoid our demise.
BTS, I think there are several ways of knowing, allowing for one to be both "gnostic" and "agnostic," depending on what kind of "knowledge" is considered.
Agreed, but for the purpose of this discussion, I am using the narrower view of "knowledge" in the scientific sense, which I think is appropriate here. In that sense we are all agnostic of certain things.
Burn
To define either of these two definitions one must conclusively answer the big question first. Does God exist? Ever since man has had the ability to communicate that question has undoubtedly been asked in one form or another.
Thousands of volumes have been written on the subject of a god, and now your topic question:"Atheist or Agnostic" is dealing with the concept of a supreme being that some have claimed to have limited knowledge and or limited proof of his existence and that some have claimed they don't know.
I have come to learn that I know that I don't know how to answer this question. I have no personal experiences with a god, him ,her, it, Jehovah, or Jesus. Why that is, I don't know.
Using my own reasoning, I think that something or someone got life started. Was the universe always here? Was a god always here? My limited mind can't reach an answer to my own questions?
There have always been three camps when it comes down to answering these questions.1) for, 2) against, 3) don't know. I'm in the third camp for now.
Blueblades
Glad
We are all just stumbling in the dark, trying to find certainty, in the hope that it will help us avoid our demise.
I don't believe it's as "dark" as some would claim.
