On the sound use of mental suicide.

by Narkissos 86 Replies latest jw friends

  • Narkissos

    Thanks all -- especially Anti-Christ and SPAZnik for sharing those strong and painful experiences...

    "All the same consciousness" -- a revelation or a symptom (cf. the "Nietzsche" thread)? Or -- as Dostoevsky might ask -- why not both?

    Rapunzel, I believeyour literary input is very welcome here. As we emerge from a terribly poor subculture (JWs) into a moderately poor culture (the average "world"), I believe we need the very best of fictions (literature, theatre, movies)to keep on playing our ever-changing roles without taking ourselves too seriously.

    Btw I would add to your impressive list a 20th-century German author who helped me tremendously at the crossroads, Hermann Hesse, especially his Steppenwolf which centers on a cultural identity crisis and ends with the words Einmal würde ich das Lachen lernen -- someday I would learn to laugh, too.

    SPAZnik: that was great.

  • Rapunzel

    BTS - I entirely agree with you when you say that a lot gets lost in translating Don Quixote. A lot is lost in any translation whatsoever. In Italian, there is a two-word expression that states the case ever so succinctly: "Traduttore, traditore," which means "To translate is to betray."

    Ironically, so much is lost in the translation into English of this self-same Italian expression!!! For one thing, the brevity and smooth flow of the original Italian are lost; "To translate is to betray" does indeed convey the basic idea, but the English translation requires five words, as opposed to the two Italian words. Therefore, the English is awkward and cumbersome in comparison.

    But, a lot more is lost. In the Italian, there is alliteration, repetition of both vowel and consanant. The only difference is in the middle syllable: dut changes into di.

    A similar phenomenon occurs in translating Don Quixote into English. The man from La Mancha is driven to madness [locura] by his reading [lectura]. It is his lectura which leads to his locura. In Spanish, the two words are quite similar. In English, they are very different.

  • R.Crusoe

    Spaz = all the advice you pm'd me??? Mmmmm?

    Narky - as I suspected = you offer zero! In fact you pose a nagative! Well compound-intellect has long done the same in WT cloisters! So no changes there! I mean that most sincerely - a disappointment if it were not confirming my suspisions!

    My thoughts are that those individuals successfully living fulfilling realities are content with whatever imagined reality 'god' poses them! So in this regard maybe Eckhart was correct more than many are presently able to comprehend?

    I wonder how many incognitto JWD posters we have?

    The WT is indeed a 'poison body' for partakers to suffer but one wonders about how long it takes or if indeed one ever is successful in finding alternatives to administer the antidote?

    I feel Eckhart has some far more superior links for the individual to divinity than the WT has neurons as a collective entity - but it is unclear at present how comprehensive a process he offers for those who feel connected to what he has discovered.

    I am as reluctant as anyone to take bait after WT wormology but my mind is still in the +ve! My doubts were on pins when he alluded more than once to Jesus philosophy - simply due to the Biblical cancer in the whole book - but I stand open minded.

    I get the aura of garden centre vibes in my community and online most everytime I indulge - but maybe it is the springtime - plants are on the increase!


  • Hortensia

    I watched a bit of the video of Eckhart Tolle. He is starting to take himself too seriously. I read his first book and got a lot out of it. Not so much out of this new one.

  • R.Crusoe

    That is the oddness of nowness = one has to take it seriously to overcome the type of ego that gets up early to go listen for two hours to words about words from ancient humans claiming they got words from the divine reality which real humans claim have a divine link to explain the words they write about the words!

    That type of ego is obviously not very serious if you don't take yourself too seriously = unless of course you are an elder, in which case you will ruin a persons life who claims they don't!

    So in this respect I think Eckharts egoless 'calculus' is an attempt to help a human regain their psychological Newtonian physique!

    Maybe inspector Cleuseau would disagree but I am just pleased not to be in his lift when a 'bomb' is dropped!

  • quietlyleaving

    on the plus side (imo) -

    Tolle does encourage creativity

    He does not seem to encourage a complete disengagement from the "world" but seems to suggest recognising our human story making abilites and to stand back to gain perspective. So that is a plus.

    He does not encourage people to think that they are god. But I can see why that idea may suggest itself to the reader but Tolle is very careful to point out not to think like that.

    He encourages gaining perspective from nature and being with nature.

    I personally did not like the Eckhart discussion board and did not join as everyone seemed a little too enamoured with Tolle himself and he was being seen as better than all the others.

  • hamilcarr

    Magisches theater

    Nicht für jedermann

    Nur für verrückte

    Can I freely translate this as 'only for the mentally ill, not for the mentally healthy'?

  • Narkissos


    as I suspected = you offer zero! In fact you pose a nagative!

    Indeed. Actually I just say, beware of the magic wand that makes the same zero, or negative, look like a positive "one," or "infinite".

    Or, if it's already too late for that, go ahead, buy the "true self" T-shirt, and enjoy that new role (and blame my unrepentant ego for calling it a "role" if you want)!

    The only thing I was really worried about (from your posts of the last few days) was your getting stuck halfway, where the true psychological danger lies imo.

    hamilcarr: that's it!

    Hesse owes a lot to Jungian analysis, which holds that the "unconscious" is not one but many, and something not to be "obeyed" but known and dealt with...

  • jwfacts
    potentially very liberating but also very dangerous.

    I am sensitive to that because I went through a similar experience when I left JWs

    Nark, interesting thread that has resulted in some powerful answers. I am interested to know what your experience was, and why you feel it dangerous.

    I wonder if pondering at such depth is healthy, or should be avoided, or if it is even possible for some people to avoid such things. My wife ponders little, she was never one for spiritual tradition even as a JW, and now does not care what the answers are, rarely raises the questions. Yet she is far easier to keep happy than I am, suffers less from mood swings. It seems a blessing to be of a more simple mind. Do we train ourselves to think at too great a depth, or is it unavoidably linked in to ones genes?

  • Anti-Christ
    Yet she is far easier to keep happy than I am, suffers less from mood swings. It seems a blessing to be of a more simple mind. Do we train ourselves to think at too great a depth, or is it unavoidably linked in to ones genes?

    That is a question I have been asking myself. I sometimes wonder if I will go mad just by thinking. Like most things in this world I am starting to realise that it is balance that is important. What is difficult is to find that balance and then trying to maintain it.

Share this