Watchtower Comments THE GENERATION CHANGE Featuring LEOLAIA

by V 221 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • scholar
    scholar

    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    Because you were in Bethel does not mean that none of the 'celebrated WT scholars were there present for the majority do not reside in Bethel. You talk about the Society's flip-flop interpretations so what about Christendom' hopeless confusion and doubt on this subject, What do you prefer, doubt over 'faith, confusion over adjustment. I prefer the Society's 'flip-flops' which are in accord with the Master's exhortation for his true disciples to be 'On the Watch' any day.

    I will let you into a little secret. The Society does not and has not protect pedophiles for these are the hysterics of such apostates as Bill Bowen and Barbara Anderson/

    scholar JW

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    'celebrated WT scholars ... the majority do not reside in Bethel.

    Name one... you? Are you somehow responsible for writing the Watchtower? Does Ted Jaracz call you for your input on the interpretation of "this generation" in Hebrew and Greek? Or maybe you wrote the Awake! article on puppet operas?

    I assure you that Writing Department is very much in Bethel. If they seek outside input, it will be for confirmation of their already decided viewpoint.

    What do you prefer, doubt over 'faith, confusion over adjustment.

    I don't like being told to have faith in what amounts to lies. Yep, I toed the WT line and learned first hand that they have no idea what they're doing. If you like putting your faith in ongoing 'adjustments', you deserve to be a JW. What do you think, is a 'false hope' better than 'no hope'?

    I will let you into a little secret. The Society does not and has not protect pedophiles for these are the hysterics of such apostates as ...

    No, I'll let you in on a little secret. I have experience with the Society's policy on child molestation and their legal department.

    How's your research coming on Gilbert Simental? Maybe he's a celebrated WT scholar?

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Hi slimboyfat....Thanks for your comments, and you offer some good criticism of how I expressed myself towards the end, which could probably have been better phrased (after all, I spent all last weekend writing the thing, and I was ready at that point to finish it and send it off), although I was commenting more on the Society's behavior in the 20th century than the situation in early Christianity (with a rather abrupt transition from writing as exegete to writing as critic of Watchtower policy). And while I am not a believer in any usual sense of the word, and certainly have no "faith" per se, I still derive a genuine spiritual appreciation for the whole gamut of early Jewish and Christian thought -- including the eschatological dimension. More to the point, I was speaking more to the middle ground between having no eschatology whatsoever and an "ultra-imminent expectation". From personal life experience, I feel that the latter can be unhealthy for the reasons I stated. But its alternative is not necessarily letting go of any hope of the things expected. Sure, that is possible too, but many have still maintained the hope while not being dogmatic on how soon its realization is supposed to be. I'm not entirely sure of the situation in contemporary SDAism but my impression is that they still very much expect the tribulation and millennium but are not dogmatic (as their forbearers used to be in the early to mid-1800s) on how long the "probation period" is supposed to last. My criticism was directed at the Watchtower position throughout the 20th century that insisted dogmatically on the basis of a false date (1914) that Armageddon was at most just a few years away, and thus strongly recommended JWs at various times to forego long-range planning, education, marriage, etc. I do think the Society is in a transition phase right now and may be backing away from such dogmatism, and the new "generation change" -- while exegetically unsound -- is possibly a step in that direction.

    I think the only thing worth commenting with respect to pseudo-scholar's remarks is his characterization of original post as "simply a diatribe dressed up as scholarship" that neglects to provide references to "lexica, commentaries or journal articles". This comment completely misrecognizes the purpose and intent of the essay. It was not written as if it were a journal article, and it is not "amateurish" to write something in a different format that has a different purpose. It was intended to be my own "comments you will not hear at the Watchtower study". That is to say, it consists of my own comments and opinions about the Watchtower study article -- my take on the claims, interpretations, logic, and rhetoric of the article. When Ritchie Rich was the guest commentator, what he posted was his take on that week's article from his own unique point of view. When Don Cameron was the guest commentator, what he posted was his take on that week's article, and again, he eloquently discussed the problems with the article as he saw it. I was not trying to do anything different. Nor in presenting my analysis and explaining the reasons for it was I trying to say that there couldn't be other views. Of course, I read the academic literature and can present a more scholarly-informed discussion of the content of the study article, and I tried to explain as best as I could in the limited format of the "Comments You Will Not Hear" series the evidence and reasoning involved in the conclusions and opinions I presented. I gave, as I always do, all the specific citations to the texts and sources I used. So for instance, rather than appeal to a secondary source like a lexicon to assert what the range of meaning of parousia was, I went to the actual primary sources and gave specific examples showing that "coming" was a perfectly normal sense of the word -- and I also showed how the context itself supports this understanding of the term. That is far beyond anything that the Watchtower article did. I could have easily cited published scholarship and journal articles for any one of the points that I made, but that was not only unnecessary in what the "Comments" were supposed to be (i.e. an informal discussion of the article that any average JW could benefit from), but I also would never have been able to complete my Comments in time. The purpose of my essay was to introduce for the average JW a different way of looking at the relevant biblical texts -- supported by logic, context, the actual meanings of words, and the wider conceptual context. And all the points I made reflect what is found in biblical scholarship; while I have my own slant (as everybody does), there is nothing especially original about the ideas that I've summarized from the critical literature. Nor, in presenting those ideas, was I claiming that there was only one analysis or view in the literature. This was, as I have said, Leolaia's exegesis (designed to specifically critique another interpretation, the one provided by the Society) and I provided the evidence and argumentation, and showed how I reached my conclusions. Criticism should follow from those grounds, rather than the mere casting of aspersions.

    (And I agree that certain comments from Lex were uncalled-for, that's not what this thread should be about)

  • Homerovah the Almighty
    Homerovah the Almighty
    The Society does not and has not protect pedophiles for these are the hysterics of such apostates as Bill Bowen and Barbara Anderson/

    Really, then what was the reason for the multi-million dollar law suits all about then

    Answer = They were intensionally trying to cover up and protect their public image , just as the Catholics were doing, it didn't work they got caught

    sorry little off topic of the thread

    Thanks again Leolai and V for your work on yet another JW spin, they try and come off being smart and knowledgeable but they really are a bunch of dumb uneducated book peddlers.

  • Invetigator74
    Invetigator74

    Leolaia I enjoyed the information that you forwarded to this board immensely! I now ask the board why are they feeding into "scholar", usually when persons, such as "scholar" ,receives no response to their unfounded statements, they simply go away. Peace!

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    Leolaia,

    Sorry to litter your thread. You did a fine job with that mishmash of an article. I appreciate your thoughtful research. After years in the bOrg, it's fascinating to find you, Mary, Blondie, V, and other brainiacs here on JWD.

    I'm all out of Troll Chow, so I'll quit feeding you-know-who and retire for the evening.

    B the X

  • truthseeker
    truthseeker

    Scholar,

    I see no need to defend Leolaia's article as it speaks for itself. I have been doing research on the events leading up to the tribulation and have not yet finished.

    I have noticed for some time that the events Jesus spoke about did not happen all at once and Jesus gave no demarcation between one tribulation and the next.

    If you read each account of the events leading up to the tribulation you will notice there are no definite references to future generations, only the one generation whom Jesus referred to.

    We know from historical accounts that Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD and after that life carried on, but if you read the scriptures it appears that Jesus said a whole lot more would happen and this did not come to pass.

    Perhaps Jesus himself did not know? I have no answers.

    The only thing he said to his disciples was that Jehovah himself knew the times and the seasons.

  • truthseeker
    truthseeker

    Scholar,

    I find it strange you readily welcome the WT flip-flops in doctrine - you've been a member of this board for over 5 years, you must be aware of all the changes. How is it you remain so convinced the Watchtower has the truth?

    I cannot ingore what my own eyes tell me.

  • BizzyBee
    BizzyBee
    You talk about the Society's flip-flop interpretations so what about Christendom' hopeless confusion and doubt on this subject, What do you prefer, doubt over 'faith, confusion over adjustment. I prefer the Society's 'flip-flops' which are in accord with the Master's exhortation for his true disciples to be 'On the Watch' any day.

    Oh, this was disappointing, scholar! You've fallen off your high-horse and into the oldest cliche in the book: (Whine) "What about those other religions? They aren't perfect either!" No shite. JWs are no different. 'On the Watch' - puh-leese!

    I will let you into a little secret. The Society does not and has not protect pedophiles for these are the hysterics of such apostates as Bill Bowen and Barbara Anderson/

    So this is how you answer to mountains of documentation about the pedophile cover-up?

    You, sir, are no scholar. You, sir, are a JW apologist wannabe with a good vocabulary and no substance.

  • scholar
    scholar

    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    Post 388

    Because you have not found the 'celebrated WT scholars' does not mean they do not exist. Did you look under your bed at Bethel or look into your wardrobe? Surely, you must have found at least one! The identity of this group must remain anonymous so Alas I cannot assist you as to there identity. Publications of the Watch Tower are not lies but are based upon careful research and champion God's inspired Word for if these publications then why are such publications spiritual food for apostates. Apostates publish nothing, no commentary, no articles or books based on the Bible . Such an evil slave class offers no spiritual food but they harp and carp being critical of what the FDS publishes. This is blatant hypocrisy so if you have something to say or something better to say then have it published and be honest about it.

    If you have a better interpretation of Christ's presence and the generation then write it up and publish it so that any reader can benefit. In other words, Put up or Shut up!

    scholar JW

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