Why Jehovah Witnesses teach a more biblical faith

by tralon 33 Replies latest jw friends

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia
    Somehow over the centuries Hades, Gehenna and Tartaroo got changed into another word called hell which now means an ever burning inferno, which NEVER conveyed that thought. How do these things happen, one wonders?

    Betcha did know that such a concept PRE-DATED Christianity, and that it was believed that those condemned on Judgment Day would be be sent to be tortured in fire forever in Gehenna. There is nothing late about this notion. It is hard to escape from the notion in early Jewish and Christian writings:

    "When their sons perish and they see the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, until the great day of their judgment (téi hémerai tés megalés tés kriseós) and consummation, until eternal judgment (to krima tou aiónas ton aiónón) is consummated. Then they will be led away to the fiery abyss (eis to khaos tou puros) and to the torture (basanon), and to the prison (desmótérion) where they will be confined forever (sunkleiseós aiónos). And everyone who is condemned and destroyed henceforth will be bound together with them until the consummation of their generation" (1 Enoch 10:11-13, written in the late third century BC, paraphrased in Jude 6-7).
    "These hollow places [in Sheol] are so the spirits of the souls of the dead (ta pneumata tón psukhón tón nekrón) may be gathered in them ... created for the spirits of the sinners, when they die and are buried in the earth, and judgment has not been executed on them in their life. Here their spirits (ta pneumata autón) are separated for this great torment (eis tén megalén basanon tautén), until the great day of judgment, of scourges and tortures (basanón) of the accursed forever (mekhri aiónos), that there might be a recompense for their spirits. There he will bind them forever (dései autous mekhris aiónos)" (1 Enoch 22:3, 10-11; written in the late third century BC).
    "Then his judgment took place. First among the stars, they received their judgment and were found guilty, and they went to the place of condemnation, and they were thrown into an abyss, full of fire and flame and full of the pillar of fire. Then those seventy shepherds were judged and found guilty; and they were cast into that fiery abyss. In the meantime, I saw how another abyss like it, full of fire, was opened wide in the middle of the ground; and they brought those blinded sheep [sinners], all of which were judged, found guilty, and cast into this fiery abyss, and they were burned" (1 Enoch 90:24-26; the Animal Apocalypse was written c. 160 BC, and was quoted as scripture in the Epistle of Barnabas).
    "Woe to you sinners, because of the words of your hands! On account of the deeds of your wicked ones, in blazing flames worse than fire, it shall burn... Know that down to Sheol they will lead your souls and there they will be in great distress, and in darkness and in a snare and in a flaming fire. Into great judgment your souls will enter, and the great judgment will be for all the generations of eternity" (1 Enoch 100:9, 103:7-8; the Epistle of Enoch was written in the mid-second century BC).
    "The judgment of all who walk in such [wicked] ways will bring an abundance of afflictions (lrwb ngw`ym) at the hands of the angels of perdition (m'lky chbl), for eternal damnation (lshcht 'wlmym) in the wrath of God's furious vengeance, with terror and shame without end (lz`wtntsch wchrpt), with a humiliating destruction by fire in the darkness (`m klmt klh b-'sh mchshkym). For all eternity (qtsyhm), generation by generation (ldwrwtm), they will spend in bitter weeping (b-'bl) and harsh evils (ygwn wr`t) in dark abysses (b-hwywt chwshd) without any remnant nor rescue from destruction" (1 QS 4:11-14; the Qumran Community Rule was written in the late second century BC)
    "Woe to the nations that rise against my people, the Lord Almighty will requite them; in the day of judgment (hémerai kriseós) he will punish (ekdikései) them, he will send fire (dounai pur) and worms into their flesh, and they shall burn and suffer forever (klausontai en aisthései heós aiónos)" (Judith 16:17; written in the late second century BC).
    "There shall no more be Beliar's spirit of error, because he will be thrown into the eternal fire (embléthésetai en tói puri eis ton aióna), and those who died in sorrow shall be raised in joy ... and those who died on account of the Lord shall be wakened to life. And the deer of Jacob shall run with gladness, the eagles of Jacob shall fly with joy, the impious shall mourn (penthésousi) and the sinners shall weep (klausontai), but all the peoples shall glorify the Lord forever" (Testament of Judah 25:3-5; written in the first century BC).
    "Until eternity (aiónos) those who are like Cain in their moral corruption and hatred of brother shall be punished with a similar judgment (kolasei krithésontai)" (Testament of Benjamin 7:5; written in the first century BC).
    "Flee from sexual promiscuity, and order your wives and your daughters not to adorn their heads and their appearances so as to deceive men's sound minds. For every woman who schemes in these ways is destined for eternal punishment (eis aióna tén kolasin). For it was thus that they charmed the Watchers, who were before the Flood" (Testament of Gad 5:5-6; written in the first century BC).
    "Put us to the test then, tyrant; and if you [i.e. Antiochus Epiphanes] take our lives for the sake of our religion, do not think you can harm us with your torments (basanizón). By our suffering and endurance (kakopatheias kai hupomonés) we shall obtain the prize of virtue and shall be with God, on whose account we suffer. But you, because of our foul murder, will suffer (karteréseis) at the hand of divine justice the everlasting torment by fire (aionión basanon dia puros) you deserve" (4 Maccabees 9:7-9; written in the first century AD).
    "Are you [Antiochus] not ashamed to receive your kingdom with all its blessings from the hand of God and then to kill those who serve him and torture (streblósai) those who practice piety? In return for this, justice will hold you in store for an intense and everlasting fire (puknoteró kai aionió puri) and for torments (basanois) which will never let you go for all time (ai eis holon ton aióna)" (4 Maccabees 12:11-12).
    "It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into Gehenna (eis tén Geennan), into the fire that never goes out (eis to pur to asbeston)" (Mark 9:43, written just prior to c. 70 AD).
    "And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home -- these he has kept in dense darkness (hupo zophon), bound with everlasting chains (desmois aidiois) for judgment on the great day (eis krisin megalés hémeras). In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire (puros aióniou dikén)" (Jude 6-7, paraphrasing 1 Enoch 10:11-13; written in the late first century AD)
    "Many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the outer darkness (eis to skotos to exóteron), where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (ho klauthmos kai ho brugmos tón odontón).... The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace (kaminon tou puros), where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (ho klauthmos kai ho brugmos tón odontón). Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father... It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire (to pur to aiónion)... It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of Gehenna (eis tén geennan tou puros).... When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats ... Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire (eis to pur to aiónion) prepared for the devil and his angels' ... Then they will go away to eternal punishment (eis kolasin aiónion), but the righteous to eternal life" (Matthew 8:11-12,13:41-43, 18:8-9, 25:31-32, 41, 46; written in the late first century AD).
    "These are the servants of all creation who come to the souls of ungodly men and bring them and leave them in this place. They spend three days going around with them in the air before they bring them and cast them into their eternal punishment.... I turned back and walked and I saw a great sea. But I thought that it was a sea of water. I discovered that it was entirely a sea of flame like a slime which casts forth much flame and whose waves burn sulphur and bitumen... I saw all the souls sinking in it. I saw some whose hands were bound to their neck, with their hands and feet being fettered. I said, 'Who are these?' He said to me, 'These are the ones who were bribed and they were given gold and silver until the souls of men were led astray.' And I saw others covered with mats of fire. I said, 'Who are these?' He said to me, 'These are the ones who give money at interest, and they receive interest for interest.' And I saw some blind ones crying out" (Apocalypse of Zephaniah 4:7, 6:1-2, 10:4-8; written in the first century AD).
    "They [the Essenes] believe that every soul is immortal (psukhén pasan men aphtharton), but that only the souls of the righteous receive other bodies ... while those of the wicked are punished with an everlasting punishment (aidiói timória kolazesthai)....[The Sadducees] do not believe in an immortal soul and the punishments (timórias) and rewards in Hades" (Josephus, Bellum Judaicum, 163, 165; written in the laste first century AD).
    "They [the Pharisees] believe that souls have immortal power (athanaton te iskhun tais psukhais), and that there are rewards and judgments under the earth (hupo khthonos dikaióseis) for those who have done well or badly in their life. Evil souls (psukhias kakias) are detained in an eternal prison (heirgmon aidion), while virtuous ones have an easy route to a new life" (Josephus, Antiquities 18.14; written in the late first century AD).
    "The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment (huparkhón en basanois), he looked up and saw Abraham far away with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this flame (odunómai en té phlogi tauté) ... in this place of torment (eis ton topon touton tés basanou)" (Luke 16:22-24, 28; written in the late first century AD)
    "And the earth shall give up those who are asleep in it, and the chambers shall give up the souls which have been committed to them. And the Most High shall be revealed upon the seat of judgment, and compassion shall pass away, and patience shall be withdrawn, but judgment alone shall remain, truth shall stand, and faithfulness shall grow strong. And recompense shall follow, and the reward shall be manifested; righteous deeds shall awake, and unrighteous deeds shall not sleep. Then the pit of torment (lacus tormenti) shall appear, and opposite it shall be the place of rest; and the furnace of Gehenna (clibanus Gehennae) shall appear, and opposite it the Paradise of delight. Then the Most High will say to the nations that have been raised from the dead, 'Look now, and understand whom you have denied ... Look on this side and on that; here are delight and rest, and there are fire and torments (ignis et tormenta)" (4 Ezra 7:32-38; written in the late first century AD).
    "Then those who have now abused my ways shall be amazed, and those who have rejected them with contempt shall dwell in torments (cruciamentis). For as many as did not acknowledge me in their lifetime, although they received my benefits, and as many as scorned my Law while they still had freedom, and did not understand but despised it while an opportunity for repentance was still open to them, these must in torment (in crucimento) acknowledge it after death (post mortem cognoscere). Therefore, do not continue to be curious as to how the ungodly will be punished (impii cruciabuntur), but inquire how the righteous will be saved" (4 Ezra 9:9-13).
    "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with fire and sulphur (basanisthésetai en puri kai theió) in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever (ho kapnos tou basanismou autón eis aiónas aiónón). There is no rest day or night (ouk ekhousin anapausin hémeras kai nuktos) for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name... And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur (eis tén limnén tou pur kai theió), where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever (basanisthésontai hémeras kai nuktos eis tous aiónas ton aiónón)... And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire (eis tén limnén tou puros)" (Revelation 14:9-11, 20:10-15; written in c. AD 95).
    "The time is coming which will remain forever, and there is the new world which does not carry back to corruption those who enter into its beginning, and which has no mercy on those who come into torment or those who are living in it, and it does not carry to perdition. For those are the ones who will inherit this time of which it is spoken, and to these is the heritage of the promised time. These are they who prepared for themselves treasures of wisdom ... for the coming world will be given to these, but the habitation of many others will be in the fire" (2 Baruch 44:12-15; written in the late first century or early second century AD).
    "And it came to pass when the sun was setting, and behold a smoke like that of a furnace ... and behold, in this light a fiery Gehenna was enkindled, and a great crowd in the likeness of men. They all were changing in aspect and shape, running and changing form and prostrating themselves and crying aloud words I did not know...[And the Eternal, Mighty One said:] I will burn with fire those who mocked them and ruled over them in this age and I will deliver those who have covered me with mockery over to the scorn of the coming age. Because I have prepared them to be food for the fire of Hades, and to be ceaseless soaring in the air of the underworld of the uttermost depths, to be the contents of a wormy belly ... for they shall putrefy in the belly of the crafty worm Azazel, and be burned by the fire of Azazel's tongue" (Apocalypse of Abraham 15:1, 6-7, 31:2-6; written in the second century AD)
    "And over against that place I saw another, squalid, and it was the place of punishment; and those who were punished there and the punishing angels had their raiment dark like the air of the place. And there were certain ones there hanging by the tongue: and these were the blasphemers of the way of righteousness; and under them lay fire, burning and punishing them. And there was a great lake, full of flaming mire, in which were certain men that pervert righteousness, and tormenting angels afflicted them. And there were also others, women, hanged by their hair over that mire that bubbled up, and these were they who adorned themselves for adultery; and the men who mingled with them in the defilement of adultery, were hanging by the feet and their heads in that mire. And I said: I did not believe that I should come into this place.... And near those there were again women and men gnawing their own lips, and being punished and receiving a red-hot iron in their eyes, and these were they who blasphemed and slandered the way of righteousness....And others again near them, women and men, burning and turning themselves and roasting: and these were they that leaving the way of God" (Apocalypse of Peter 20-23, 27, 33; written around the middle of the second century AD)
    "He shall raise all men from the dead, and appoint some to be incorruptible, immortal, and free from sorrow in the everlasting and imperishable kingdom; but shall send others away to the everlasting punishment of fire (eis kolasin aiónion puros)" (Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, 117.3; written in c. AD 155).
    "This, then, to speak shortly, is what we expect and have learned from Christ, and teach. And Plato, in like manner, used to say that Rhadamanthus and Minos would punish the wicked (kolasein tous adikous) who came before them, and we say that the same thing will be done, but at the hand of Christ, and upon the wicked in the same bodies united again to their souls (tois autois sómasi meta tón psukhón ginomenón) which are now to undergo everlasting punishment (aiónian kolasin kolasthésomenón); and not only ... for a period of a thousand years" (Justin Martyr, 1 Apology 8.3-5; written in c. AD 156).
    "Each man goes to everlasting punishment (aiónian kolasin) or salvation according to the value of his actions. If all men knew this, no one would choose wickedness even for a little, knowing that he goes to the everlasting punishment of fire (aiónian dia puros katadikén); but would by all means restrain himself, and adorn himself with virtue" (Justin Martyr, 1 Apology 12.1-2).
    "Even when the martyrs were so torn by whips that the internal structure of their flesh was visible as far as the inner veins and arteries, they endured so patiently that even the bystanders had pity and wept. But they themselves reached such a level of bravery that not one of them uttered a cry or a groan, thus showing to us all that at the very hour when they were being tortured (basanizomenoi) the martyrs of Christ were absent from the flesh, or that the Lord was conversing with them. And turning their thoughts to the grace of Christ they despised the tortures (basanón) of this world, purchasing at the cost of one hour an exemption from eternal punishment (tén aiónion kolasin)....But Polycarp said: 'You threaten with a fire that burns only briefly and after just a little while is extinguished, for you are ignorant of the fire of the coming judgment and eternal punishment (to tés mellouses kriseós kai aióniou kolaseós pur), which is reserved for the ungodly' " (Martyrdom of Polycarp 2:2-3, 11:2; written c. AD 155-160).
    "Then you will see that though your lot of on earth, God lives in heaven, then you will begin to declare the mysteries of God ... and condemn the deceit and error of the world, when you realize what the true life in heaven is, when you despise the apparent death here on earth, when you fear the real death, which is reserved for those who will be condemned to the eternal fire (katakrithésomenois eis to pur to aiónion) which will punish (kolasei) to the very end those delivered to it" (Epistle to Diognetus 10:7; written in the middle of the second century AD).
    "Among those who had denied [Christ] was a woman of the name of Biblias. The devil, thinking that he had already swallowed her, and wishing to damn her still more by making her accuse falsely, brought her forth to punishment (kolasin), and employed force to constrain her, already feeble and spiritless, to utter accusations of atheism against us. But she, in the midst of the tortures, came again to a sound state of mind, and awoke as it were out of a deep sleep; for the temporary suffering (tés proskairou timorias) reminded her of the eternal punishment in Gehenna (tén aiónion en Geennéi kolasin), and she contradicted the accusers of Christians, saying, 'How can children be eaten by those who do not think it lawful to partake of the blood of even brute beasts?' And after this she confessed herself a Christian" (Epistle From the Church of Lyons and Vienna, 1.25; written in c. AD 177-178).
    "I am obedient to God to whom you should also submit and believe. If you remain unbelieving for the time being, you will be convinced hereafter, when you are tormented with eternal punishments (aióniois timóriais)....But do you also, if you please, give reverential attention to the prophetic Scriptures, and they will make your way plainer for escaping the eternal punishments (tas aionious kolaseis), and obtaining the eternal prizes of God....But to the unbelieving and despisers, who obey not the truth, but are obedient to unrighteousness, when they shall have been filled with adulteries and fornications, and filthiness, and covetousness, and unlawful idolatries, there shall be anger and wrath, tribulation and anguish, and at the last everlasting fire (pur aiónion) shall possess such men" (Theophilus of Antioch, Ad Autolycum, 1.14; written in the late second century AD).
  • Justitia Themis
    Justitia Themis

    Disciplined from within? Unity of belief and actions?

    I think not. If you Tralon, as a JW (and we all know that you are) joined the YMCA, you would be disfellowshipped, because according to the Questions From Readers, if you join an orginization you are actively supporting its goals and mission; it would be termed interfaith.

    Did you know JWs joined the old Warsaw Pact as an Non-governmental Organization? It's OK for them, just not for you. :)

    http://www.osce.org/conferences/hdim_2007.html

    Scroll down to NGOs. JW associated NGOs are numbers 10, 93, 94, 243 and 328.
    http://www.osce.org/documents/odihr/2007...586_en.pdf

    Also, they "convened" a meeting. Scroll down to September 26, 2007, Room #2, from 13:00-15:00 hours.

    http://www.osce.org/documents/odihr/2007...609_en.pdf
    Here is some information for those who are unfamiliar with the background and function of the OSCE:

    ***

    g978/22p.31OSCE—WhatIsIt?WillItSucceed? ***

    OSCE—What

    IsIt?WillItSucceed?

    By Awake! correspondent in Portugal

    AFTER World War II, a power struggle arose between Western democratic capitalist countries and the Eastern Communist Soviet bloc. Each bloc developed its own security organization: the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) in the West and the Warsaw Pact in the East.

    By 1975 the Cold War had thawed enough for 35 States, including the United States and Russia, to sign what came to be called the Helsinki Agreement. The Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe (CSCE) was born. It was a multilateral forum for dialogue and negotiation between the two blocs.

    At the Budapest Summit in 1994, the CSCE changed its name to the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE). Today, it is composed of 54 participating States, including the United States, Canada, and all the countries of the former Soviet Union.

    Its

    Objective

    The objective of the member nations of the OSCE is to guarantee the security of Europe as well as to foster the implementation of human rights, disarmament, democratic freedoms and the management of regional conflict.

    A summit meeting of the OSCE was held in Lisbon, Portugal, on December 2-3, 1996. At first, attention was focused on NATO, since several NATO members, including the United States, are in favor of the expansion of NATO to include more nations from Central and Eastern Europe. But rather than support the enlargement of NATO to include former Eastern bloc allies, Russia and some of her former Eastern bloc allies want the OSCE to become the forum for matters of European security.

    The Russian prime minister, Viktor Chernomyrdin, said at the meeting: "We are in favor of strengthening the OSCE, which is the only place in Europe where all States can work together. It is the best international place for discussing security and defense."

    The radiant afternoon sun seemed to create a climate of general optimism at the close of the summit, despite the comments of the press regarding its nebulous results. Whatever success or failure the OSCE may realize, peace lovers everywhere can be assured that true peace and security will soon be realized earth wide under the rule of God’s Kingdom.—Psalm 72:1, 7, 8.

  • Honesty
    Honesty
    Surprizeingly, I am not a JW but an observer and in partial agreement with the Jehovah Witnesses on many issues. I have been to many churches in my 30 years and have studied many church beliefs, church history and the bible as well.

    Then you of all persons should recognise False Prophets better than anyone on earth.

    Or did you put on the Watchtower's glasses when you started examining their doctrines.

  • Gordy
    Gordy

    Why is it that JWs (like Tralon) always know so little about their own beliefs and history, and that of Christian faith?

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