OK, so JW replies to my e-mail yesterday; the one in which I posted a topic about.. he said this.
"Okay Mr/Mrs. Georgiahuff I'm glad you feel that way and like I said your opinions don't matter to me!!! First of all you are a very closed minded person and you probably never even been to the Kingdom Hall yourself or read the Bible. If you did read the Bible you would know the Bible is nothing to argue about!!! We are all humans and we all fall short of the glory of God!! There. So really I don't know who you think you are to judge people, religions or anything for that matter because you are not God. Like I told you previously you cannot judge the whole congregation because of a few people misconduct and sins, I bet you also chose to ignore that comment!! JW's have never been the type to run and hide everyday you can find JW's going door-to-door handing out pamphlets and publications about Jehovah and as always our doors are always open to our visitors and friends".
I replied as follows....
"First off, almost every JW I’ve ever known has sentiments like yours about other people’s opinions; it shows a lack of respect and unwillingness to open your mind to what people are saying; yet, in your reply, you accuse me of not having an open mind-surely even you can see the irony in your own comments. I’ve never known people with less respect for other people’s religion the likes of which I see from JW’s, your magazines are chock full of insults to the “empire of false religion” as you call it, and even you have mentioned the Catholics in your e-mails, so your response toward my comments doesn’t surprise me. Maybe you should take a look at the path your leading defending an organization that has the history your religion has, comical incidents that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt God’s spirit is far removed from their presence. As far as going to a KH and reading the Bible goes, I’ve done both; that’s the reason I don’t agree with JW dogma, it appears they don’t agree with their own dogma much either as it has changed consistently; the JW’s attack other religions for changing dogma, for them it’s just “new light”.
This quote of yours really makes me laugh: “If you did read the Bible you would know the Bible is nothing to argue about”; JW spend half their time trying to get people thinking like them about the Bible, they’d argue dogma with a fence post, so does this comment mean that you’ll stop going house to house? We’re just talking here, and this time you chose to talk to someone who knows what they’re talking about…sorry if you’re not used to it. Then you state: “there is no faith or religion better than the other you just have to live your life right and try to do right by God”… If you’re a JW, you know you don’t believe this, if you did, you wouldn’t go out from house to house; but I actually agree with you here, the JWs are like all other faiths except they are much harsher, they shun those that don’t agree with them, and will not go against the Governing Body, if they do they’ll get disfellowshipped. Show me from the scriptures where this comes from. As for my judging, I have the ability to see right and wrong and I have every right to do so; I’ve never seen a religion that judges people as harshly as the JWs do; if men can’t judge then why does your religion have Judicial Committees? Only problem with the JW’s is they’ve never learned how to “remove the rafter from their own eyes”.
When a religion harbors pedophiles in their mist because they have a policy that protects them that was handed down by the church leadership, that’s something I have every right to judge. You say I didn’t answer what you said about individuals in congregations, but I did… these cases aren’t isolated to one congregation, nor to one individual. Your church leaders in New York, have a database of over 23K members who’ve been molested, they have a policy that protects molesters because they don’t go to the civil authorities when someone is molested, choosing instead to keep the problem in their Judicial Committees. Molesters are free to molest multiple victims when this happens, thus the reason the JW religion settled out of court in these cases. The Church leaders, those in your Governing Body/the leaders of your corporation, had to pay a cash settlement for the victims in these cases, that means they had policies that the law found didn’t protect children… how does that make you feel?
But, your religion is in real trouble now as more suits are sure to follow; a California Court ruled just yesterday that there is no clergy client privileges in the cases of your religion because there are three men in your JC’s and the Elders send the meeting information to the branch offices therefore there is no confidentiality; that’s the reason they (Bethel) have on file over 23K cases of abuse; none of which went to jail for their crime to the children of your faith. Shame! So, this policy, handed down by the Governing Body has hurt children, and more suits are sure to follow… how can you defend this?"
JW replies to e-mail...continuation of yesterday
by dawg 23 Replies latest jw friends
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dawg
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OnTheWayOut
As long as he replies, feel free to continue, but you do know that you are preaching to
the brick wall, don't you?Great job, though.
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chickpea
if i knew how to access all the animated smiley guys.... there would be a slew of the little critters applauding
well done! you more that upheld your points
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Honesty
Send him this link:
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WTWizard
I can argue with that piece of crap called the Bible. First, science and religion do not seem to mix. Science actively seeks the truth, and will change when people find more about the truth (unless the regulators have reason to resist--that will impede the changes of ideas to fit newer conclusions). That is why open minded people frequently change their opinions about scientific facts--as new information becomes available, they integrate it and alter their beliefs accordingly.
The Bible, on the other hand, is fixed. Take the Flood, for instance. I have seen many posts here about the scientific impossibility of a global flood and the Ark, including how would the logs not be destroyed before the time is up. Water cannot push down the seabed, since water is lighter than rock. The water canopy is impossible, unless the air was much warmer and suddenly cooled, releasing huge quantities of water (if that was the case, it would be unbearably hot). And there is no way the food could have not gone bad before the time was up.
I can argue with the Bible's morality, too. I do not think a God that would murder a people solely because they were not serving Him is morally upright. Nor is one that does not accept Cain's sacrifice when it was in fact his best vegetables (since when did Cain owe that Almighty Freeloader a sacrifice at all?). Or dying simply for complaining? Is God really that hard-hearted that He would give His people some valid reason to complain and then kill them for complaining? I do not call that morally upright.
I will even argue with Paul's writings. Jesus wrote primarily for bicameral people (the peasants in Jesus' time were bicameral), which is the primitive mode of thinking. They were not capable of thinking as we are, and Jesus sought to change that. Paul, on the other hand, was capable of thinking on his own and mistook the writings as literal. Thus, Paul created the rules against fornication and adultery. He also created the obligation to go on missionary work (which the Catholic crusades and the Jehovah's Witless missionaries are based on). All based on a mistaken view of the Bible! Yes I can argue with that.
This doesn't mean that there aren't other problems with the witlesses. In fact, there are. They claim to follow the Bible to the letter, and continually cite its authority (usually out of context). If they did, then all they would be guilty of is following a bad set of instructions. But, they will take pieces of the Bible out of context and mold them to fit their doctrines. Celebrating birthdays is horrible based on the two that they will acknowledge in the Bible where the celebrant killed innocent people. Doing ever more field circus is based on "Do your utmost", taken out of context. All their boasting sessions are also out of context (they take Hebrews 10:24-25 out of context to support attending every single one of them). They take pieces out of the Bible to support not using independent sources to verify their doctrines.
It is bad enough (in fact, horrible) to harbor pedophiles and bury the fact by lying under oath. But, they are doing worse than that. Ultimately, they want to destroy the free flow of science and truth. They lap up the crap science found in the Bible, and even worse crap science from the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger. Garret Losch is telling people how the end is about to happen, including details that he probably made up himself to scare people into staying. College is now just about banned. People are no longer allowed to question the validity of the doctrine. And now they are suing just about everyone that says a word against them, killing flow of information to the world. In essence, they want to own everything on the planet.
If they are successful in their mission, they will be the lords. We will be "serfs". No one will own anything. No one will have access to information. You make a direct observation that counters the Watchtower Society, you die. In effect, they want to start the Second Dark Ages! And they are telling me that I should belong to that kind of organization? I loaded up on Christmas decorations in 2007 on the pedophile event alone. Imagine the Christmas decorations I will blow in if the Second Dark Ages they want to start becomes mainstream knowledge--that will be even more embarrassing!
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Velvetann
Dawg
You have a way with words. If they don't get the point with the way you present it, they never will.
Thanks for sharing this with us
Velvetann
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OnTheWayOut
if i knew how to access all the animated smiley guys.... there would be a slew of the little critters applauding
Take a look at bestsmileys.com- you simply copy then cut/paste the smileys.
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wanderlustguy
I'm curious as to your motives for this. The way you are talking to the person (imagine he/she were in front of you) is sustaining the us against them mentality and probably will keep him on defensive, people can't learn anything while they are defensive. I you simply want to win a debate, you did that already.
If you are trying to HELP someone see the truth about the truth, maybe reconsider your tone and talk to this guy like you're talking to your best friend or child about why YOU see things the way you and and back it up with info from credible sources (court documents, etc). This way you are explaining why you feel as you do instead of throwing something in his face and saying "how do you defend that" (notice...defend). Or, go further, sound like you have questions and are considering his viewpoint, ask questions you know can't be answered, lead by not leading.
The best leaders are usually found towards the back of the line...because the people in front usually don't need the help to keep going.
Just a couple of thoughts.
WLG
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dinah
Dawg,
this line made me spew Dr. Pepper.
"Okay Mr/Mrs. Georgiahuff I'm glad you feel that way and like I said your opinions don't matter to me!!! First of all you are a very closed minded person and you probably never even been to the Kingdom Hall yourself or read the Bible.
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jamiebowers
The 23,000 name database at the WTB&TS is of molesters, not the molested. There is a huge difference between 23,000 molested children and 23,000 molesters, since molesters tend to victimize more than one child. The number of molested probably numbers in the hundreds of thousands if not millions.