Accessibility to guns to blame for violence? (page 3)

worldtraveller

Seems Japan, Hong Kong and South Korea have their shit together. Perhaps they have a stiffer justice system.

Fadeout

Accessibility to guns is naturally a factor; if guns were inaccessible to people, gun violence would certainly go down.

But let's not confuse accessibility with legality.

The criminalization of gun ownership has little bearing on their accessibility.

Hey... drugs are illegal... that sure keeps them out of the hands of our citizens, doesn't it?

Taking away our rights to bear arms to try to prevent violence is like... well, it's like something that's a good analogy. Maybe it's like a ship "tacking" back and forth in the wind....

One thing I do know. If everyone in that school in Illinois had been armed, there would have been no massacre.

Ever hear the story about the robber who tried to hold up a gun store?

worldtraveller

Perhaps if you eliminate the need for weapons - serious penalties, better education, you would decrease the violence.

Seems though that Christianity did sweet bugger all to reduce it.

Homerovah the Almighty

But fadeout isn't the reason that you have the expressive right to bare arms the reason there are so many guns in America right now, the logic follows

that the more guns available to the public the more likelihood some will be used for a violent action, the less availability the less likelihood.

Interesting to note that in the states where post secondary education participation is lower, like in many of the bible belt states, - generally spekaing the violent crime rates are higher on a per capita basis.

The so-called Christian democracy of the united states is a complete and utter failure.

Other cultures that emphasis respect for other people, based on common sense and common decency, rather than the fear-of-punishment-from-a-diety model of the many religious states, seem to be far less violent.

hmmmm... it makes one think doesn't it?

The Oracle

Crime Rate by State, 2004

(rate per 100,000 inhabitants)

State	Violent crime (total) 1	Murder 2	Forcible rape	Robbery	Property crime (total) 3
Ala.	426.6	5.6	38.5	133.4	4,025.0
Alaska	634.5	5.6	85.1	68.2	3,382.8
Ariz.	504.1	7.2	33.0	134.4	5,340.5
Ark.	499.1	6.4	42.4	86.2	4,013.0
Calif.	551.8	6.7	26.8	172.1	3,149.0
Colo.	373.5	4.4	42.5	81.5	3,919.3
Conn.	286.3	2.6	20.7	120.5	2,627.2
Del.	568.4	2.0	41.5	146.7	3,163.9
DC	1,371.2	35.8	40.1	578.5	4,859.1
Fla.	711.3	5.4	38.0	172.4	4,179.7
Ga.	455.5	6.9	27.0	154.7	4,265.9
Hawaii	254.4	2.6	26.4	74.8	4,792.8
Idaho	244.9	2.2	40.9	17.2	2,794.5
Ill. 4	542.9	6.1	33.2	177.2	3,186.1
Ind.	325.4	5.1	28.9	102.2	3,397.6
Iowa	270.9	1.6	26.7	38.0	2,905.3
Kans.	374.5	4.5	40.4	66.3	3,973.5
Ky.	244.9	5.7	29.9	78.8	2,537.7
La.	638.7	12.7	35.8	145.4	4,410.2
Maine	103.5	1.4	23.9	21.9	2,409.6
Md.	700.5	9.4	23.7	229.6	3,640.2
Mass.	458.8	2.6	28.0	116.4	2,459.7
Mich.	490.2	6.4	54.2	111.9	3,057.6
Minn.	269.6	2.2	41.6	79.8	3,039.0
Miss.	295.1	7.8	40.0	86.2	3,478.5
Mo.	490.5	6.2	25.7	115.2	3,903.5
Mont.	293.8	3.2	29.5	25.1	2,936.2
Nebr.	308.7	2.3	35.5	65.1	3,520.6
Nev.	615.9	7.4	40.9	210.1	4,206.6
N.H.	167.0	1.4	35.3	38.5	2,040.1
N.J.	355.7	4.5	15.3	150.3	2,429.2
N.M.	687.3	8.9	54.6	108.3	4,197.7
N.Y.	441.6	4.6	18.8	174.3	2,198.6
N.C.	447.8	6.2	27.4	137.9	4,160.2
N.D.	79.4	1.4	25.1	6.1	1,916.6
Ohio	341.8	4.5	40.5	153.1	3,673.2
Okla.	500.5	5.3	44.2	87.7	4,242.1
Ore.	298.3	2.5	35.7	76.5	4,631.3
Pa.	411.1	5.2	28.5	148.9	2,415.0
P.R.	257.9	20.4	5.1	154.8	1,542.4
R.I.	247.4	2.4	29.6	67.6	2,884.1
S.C.	784.2	6.9	40.9	129.7	4,504.8
S.D.	171.5	2.3	43.8	14.8	1,933.5
Tenn.	695.2	5.9	37.6	149.8	4,306.5
Tex.	540.5	5.1	37.3	159.3	4,494.0
Utah	236.0	1.9	39.1	51.7	4,085.6
Vt.	112.0	2.6	24.5	12.2	2,308.2
Va.	275.6	5.2	23.7	92.6	2,676.6
Wash.	343.8	3.1	46.1	94.6	4,849.2
W. Va.	271.2	3.7	17.6	42.3	2,506.2
Wis.	209.6	2.8	20.6	73.8	2,663.1
Wyo.	229.6	2.2	22.1	13.2	3,334.4

mkr32208

Take suicide, gang/criminal on criminal violence and dick Cheney out of the count and I'll bet these numbers go WAY down.

We have a fatal shooting in Jacksonville almost every night. Most of it is criminal on criminal so who cares let them shoot it out. I'm sure that big ol pocket full of cash and crack has less to do with them shooting it out than the fact that they all just sat around for 2 hours playing violent video games!

What Europe and Canada don't have violent video games?

I love how we go on and on looking for that magic bullet that every single killer will have that we can blame every naughty thing on.

Fadeout

Homerovah:But fadeout isn't the reason that you have the expressive right to bare arms the reason there are so many guns in America right now, the logic follows

that the more guns available to the public the more likelihood some will be used for a violent action, the less availability the less likelihood.

************************************************

Of course. That is why I said: "if guns were inaccessible to people, gun violence would certainly go down."

But that is a fantasy world in which guns are not available to anyone, including people who would break the law to obtain them. It's like saying (I have my analogy now) "If we simply tell our kids that sex is bad and they should never ever have it, then logically STDs will be reduced and unwanted pregnancies will stop."

It is hopeless because the reality is you cannot keep sex away from anyone who wants it. The real solution is openness and education.

Because we do not live in that make-believe world where passing laws will eliminate people's access to guns, I said: "let's not confuse accessibility with legality."

When something is cloaked in secrecy and illicitness it becomes more dangerous. "Hey, my dad keeps a gun in his room. Wanna see it?"

Wonder how many ignorant kids have died that way.

For the record I am also for legalization of drugs, on basically the same principle. I understand not everyone has this mindset... that's OK.

mkr32208

Oh and for the record japan has the sickest most vile anime and video games on the planet. Games where you can play as the monster and literally rape and mutilate girls and women. Games that just wallow in gore and violence. Games where you can light people on fire or shoot them with needles and see them ripped apart. Games that will NEVER be released in the US.

There are TONS of movies that are freely available over there that you can't get here at all. Search for 'toyogub' or similar to see how sick things can get any yet THEIR rates are much lower! SO what gives? Guess it's NOT violent video games and movies that set people off, of course those of us who do real research already KNEW THAT.

The Oracle

You are right mkr.

It all comes down to education.

Learning about respect for other people, and learning how to take care of yourself so you don't feel the need to "stick it to the man" or to hurt others to make ends meet.

And learning tolerance of other people.

Education is the key, in my humble opinion.

IMAGINE.

The Oracle

oldflame

I look at it this way. You either take all the guns away or you give everyone a gun. I prefer the later. Being a history buff back in the old west days even though tv makes it look like it was bad, there was not a lot of crime. People were afraid to commit crimes like today because everyone packed.

I think the same rule of thumb would apply today, if everyone carried a weapon there would be a whole lot less crime.

Oldflame (Cowboy in his past life) LOL

Accessibility to guns to blame for violence?

Crime Rate by State, 2004

(rate per 100,000 inhabitants)

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