WAR IS OVER-IF YOU WANT IT

by proplog2 72 Replies latest jw friends

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  Nathan Natas

  It Is The Soldier

  It Is The Soldier not the reporter,
  who has given US Freedom of the press

  It Is The Soldier not the poet,
  who has given US Freedom of speech

  It Is The Soldier not the campus organizer,
  who has given US the Freedom to demonstrate

  It Is The Soldier not the lawyer,
  who has given US the right to a fair trial

  It is The Soldier not the door to door Bible salesman,
  who has given US Freedom of religion

  It is the soldier, who saluted the Flag,
  who serves beneath the Flag
  and whose coffin is draped by the Flag,
  who allows the protester to burn the Flag
• 

  Hortensia

  I don't know what JW you belonged to, but I was raised in the org. and it wasn't so harmonious as you believe. Sure, no one was shooting guns or knifing his brother, but there was a lot going on that was very very damaging. For instance, the entire concept of "marking" people caused terrific divisions in the congregations, as well as causing innocent people to be rejected and treated like pariahs. And then the gossip, oh the damage caused by gossip. And disfellowshipping, and learning to actually look forward to and desire the destruction of most of the people on earth - how twisted and sick. So they are against participation in wars - big fucking deal. They aren't actual pacifists, their reasons for not participating in war have nothing to do with a love of peace.
• 

  Junction-Guy

  Sure JW's dont go to war for their government, but they see no problem whoring off the government for the rights that required human sacrifice. This is the real world, not some mamby pamby cult dream.
  
  At least the churches of Christendom have supplied soldiers to keep our rights and to propagate freedom.
  
  The JW cult does nothing but suck off of the taxpayer.
• 

  *summer*

  Yes, John Lennon & Yoko Ono put out posters that read "War is over - if you want it"

  But John Lennon also composed his beautiful "Imagine" telling the world that peace is so much more than the absence of war.

  War can rage in the world...but it can also rage in families and hearts. JWs do not kill their neighbors in war and they would rather die than kill. But in the same breath, they turn around and shun anyone who does not share the same beliefs. Is this what the Prince of Peace is all about???

  Why don't people harangue the millions of so called christians that carry on war contrary to their claimed leader Jesus Christ.

  Is this your idea of peace??? Leaving the poor "peace loving" JWs alone and go after the rest of the world??? If so, perhaps you should re-consider your definition of peace.

  Jehovah's Witnesses don't celebrate Christmas but they have the PEACE the world dreams about at Christmas.

  How I wish this was the real scenario! But I am afraid it is far from reality.

  *summer*
• 

  metatron

  Proplog, comatose people and dead people don't make war either. The sterility of life among Jehovah's Witnesses is appalling.

  They avoid charity and higher education. They destroy families the world over.

  I don't like to see religions support wars, either - but then again, not all do! If , one day, the world cures old age and disease and energy

  shortages, I can guarantee that Jehovah's Witnesses won't make any contribution to the achievement.

  metatron
• 

  proplog2

  I am not a JW apologist.

  I believe in giving credit where credit is due.

  We all said it many times in field service:

  "When your son or daughter gets killed in a war you can be sure it wasn't a JW that killed them."

  By the way Armageddon is not the invention of JW's. Jehovah's Witnesses don't kill people at armageddon. Armageddon is a rescue mission. If a group of people refuse to harm even their enemies they need some kind of protection. Allegedly at the point where it appears the wicked are about to exterminate the good (whatever the number - the wicked seem to be a large majority) God acts in behalf of the righteous. A slave of the Lord does not need to fight.

  Individual JW's who relish the destruction of the wicked need to adjust their attitude to conform to Jehovah's. The Bible says God doesn't take delight in the destruction of the wicked.

  Families break up for all sorts of reasons. Jesus said Matt 10:34-39

  I came to put, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division...man against father...daughter against mother...young wife against mother-in-law. Indeed, a man's enemies will be persons of his own household.

  Jesus was using the sword in a figurative sense not as an instrument for killing but as an instrument of cutting apart or separating. He knew that peace would not be an immediate consequence. And from the attitude of many on this board it is clear that there is a seething and reactionary hate focused on returning evil for evil.

  In this scripture it is clear that Jesus isn't telling his followers to kill people. In fact he tells them they should be prepared to die on a torture stake.

  Muslims and nominal Christians have warfare in common. They both have elaborate rationalizations for killing their enemies. Jesus was unambiguous about his followers not engaging in physical warfare.

  Jesus marked a major paradigm shift by repudiating the "territorial" claim to nationality. He predicted the destruction of their sacred temple. He said his kingdom was no part of the world. He said that anyone who is a friend of the world can't be a friend of God.

  So what I am pointing out is not some nit-picky little thing that nominal Christians have failed to do. Nominal Christians have dumped the heart and soul of Jesus' teaching. To be sure Jehovah's Witnesses have got some things screwed up - but they've got the most important teaching of Jesus correct. Do not kill your enemy. Love your enemy.

  The very fact that all of you have the same template to your comments ie. Jehovah's Witnesses don't go to war BUT.... show how disingenuous you really are.
• 

  Wordly Andre

  I have a cousin who is going to Iraq, and I have a nephew who is on his way to Bethel, I am more proud of my cousin and think that my nephew is wasting his life. Thank god there were not so many JW's around in 1941, or else we'd all be sprechen sie deutsche right about now, and there would be no high and mighty JW's calling me bird food.
• 

  Gopher

  Proplog2,

  You are correct in saying that JW's abstain from warfare. There are a few other pacificist religions as well. In contrast, some religions support warfare, while yet others recognize it as a necessary evil. (Was America supposed to let the Japanese and the Germans invade its territory in World War 2?)

  I find it interesting that you quote John Lennon, who in his song "Imagine" spoke of "no religion too". He saw religion as an unnecessary dividing force among mankind. Even JW's would fit into that category. They push religious conflict by coming to people's own homes and telling them their beliefs are inadequate. In my opinion, belief (or lack thereof) is best viewed as a personal matter, and not to be pushed on others. JW's aggressively promote religious controversy by their activity, even though they abstain from taking up arms to defend their nation.
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  proplog2

  Gopher:
  
  Religion traditionally was a binding force for nations. Nations had one religion that fit into their national temperament and ideals. It was necessary for national groups to have a national ideal.
  
  Jesus started something different. He founded a new nation that wasn't tied to a geographical location. His model prayer was a request for God to bring order to the earth. Citizens, of the heavenly government would have God as their protector. Their power was not in their physical weapons but in their self-sacrifice and message of love.
  
  John Lennon was talking about old religion - the kind that are cheerleaders for killers. Jehovah's Witnesses stand out in stark contrast on this issue.
  
  Jehovah's Witnesses, indeed are bullish on their beliefs. But they don't kill people if they don't believe the same way. Aggression is in the range of normal human emotion. Killing - is aggression gone amok.
  
  Please.... some other format besides YES...BUT
• 

  What-A-Coincidence

  your posts makes sense in framed/or context setting .... but ... it's best go beyond the 'frame or context' ... then you will get the REAL meaning. think about it.