If Adam did not sin, would humans have lived forever on earth?

by jwfacts 41 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • oompa
    oompa

    I see along with this subject, predestination has come up. Russel said God knew Adam would sin!!! I did not know that til recently, but several posts have been made here where you can get old wt scans, and I found this at a WIKKI site......................oompa...anybody know when this teaching stopped?

    Watchtower January 15,1918 ARE THE ADVERSARIES INCREASING IN POWER (article)

    THE DIVINE PLAN (sub-heading)

    Jehovah foreknew that Adam would disobey him and that

    all of hls progeny would suffer sickness sorrow and death.

    In the exercise of his loving kindness and perfect wisdom,

    God provided redemption of mankind from death through the

    blood of Jesus, his beloved Son. He further foreordained

    and provided that because of his full obedience to the, d.ivine

    will and program, Jesus should be exalted above all other

  • Gerard
    Gerard

    If Willy Coyote had catch the RoadRunner....

  • dothemath
    dothemath

    This assumption is made in virtually every publication put out by the Watchtower.......(that Adam and Eve would have lived forever if they hadn't sinned, and that we would be living forever also)

    Something I've never seen discussed at all, though is ......what if they remained faithful....... do you really think all their offspring would have followed their example?

    Even some of God's angels in heaven disobeyed Him........I doubt that every single human from that moment on would have proved righteous and remained perfect.

    We can only speculate.......but it seems that eventually you would end up with some Cains or Nimrods, who would even have killed any perfect people they could.

    I think it was inevitable that we would end up with all the imperfection we have today........It's a big test.

  • Must obey!
    Must obey!

    It is nonsense to say that the New Testament does not teach or at least strongly allude to living forever on earth. Revelation 20 through to 22, for example, can be used very persuasively to defend the position that humankind, the majority of them, will eventually live forever on earth. For example, the river of water of life flows down from heaven to the earth, and the trees for the curing of the nations are more likely to be a symbol for something occuring on earth, not in heaven. Why would those in heaven need curing?

    The reason the NT speaks mainly about the heavenly hope is because it was something so new and special that God was doing. Humans going to heaven is always portrayed as a special reward, not all of mankinds destiny.

    As for Adam and Eve, if they had personally not eaten of the tree of knowledge of good and bad then it would have been one of their offspring, or the next generation after that. It was only a matter of time before Satan induced someone to disobey and rebel. But Satan was so crafty he had immediate success. So its a bit simplistic to say that if Adam and Even hadn't have eaten of the tree of knowledge of good and bad then humans would have lived forever. If Satan had not managed to persuade Adam and Even to eat but had, say, managed to persuade Cain, then Adam and Eve would have continued living (and anyone else who resisted Satan) but Cain and all his descendants (and anyone else who ate from the tree) would have died.

  • jayhawk1
    jayhawk1

    Jesus was a perfect man and yet HE DIED! That is the amazing thing JWs don't seem to get. Ask them if when they make it to their New System and they fall out of a tall tree, or off that mountain in all their pictures, would they die. They're stumped.

  • quietlyleaving
    quietlyleaving

    Interesting question JWfacts

    If Adam did not sin, would humans have lived forever on earth?

    Within the context of the story if Adam hadn't sinned and died, imo, the desire to be with God (or be united more fully with God) would always have tantalised him and I feel certain that sooner or later he would have concluded that such a purpose was the goal to work towards. The story does seem to have been set up for such an outcome and not for living forever on earth.

  • dogisgod
    dogisgod

    What I want to know is whatever happened to Lilith?

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    Some great points so far. The lack of clarity in the Bible seems to lead to a large number of conclusions.

    Something I've never seen discussed at all, though is ......what if they remained faithful....... do you really think all their offspring would have followed their example?

    Excellent point, if the angels sinned, it is equally likely human offspring would as well.

    JM and MO, you are right that earth is mentioned, particularly Rev 21, however these are a new earth. This is also in line with:

    2 Peter 3:10-13 "Yet Jehovah's day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a hissing noise, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be discovered. [BURNED UP] 11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought YOU to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion, 12 awaiting and keeping close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah, through which [the] heavens being on fire will be dissolved and [the] elements being intensely hot will melt! 13 But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell."

    Even the men of old, including Abraham, Isaac and Jacob believed they were going to heaven.

      Hebrews 11:13-16 "In faith all these died, although they did not get the [fulfillment of the] promises, but they saw them afar off and welcomed them and publicly declared that they were strangers and temporary residents in the land. 14 For those who say such things give evidence that they are earnestly seeking a place of their own. 15 And yet, if they had indeed kept remembering that [place] from which they had gone forth, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they are reaching out for a better [place], that is, one belonging to heaven. Hence God is not ashamed of them, to be called upon as their God, for he has made a city ready for them."
      1 Cor makes it sound like a literal hope in heaven.
      1 Corinthians 15:42-50 'So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised up in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised up in power. 44 It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. 45 It is even so written: "The first man Adam became a living soul." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 Nevertheless, the first is, not that which is spiritual, but that which is physical, afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is out of the earth and made of dust; the second man is out of heaven. 48 As the one made of dust [is], so those made of dust [are] also; and as the heavenly one [is], so those who are heavenly [are] also. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly one. 50 However, this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God's kingdom, neither does corruption inherit incorruption."
      Revelation makes a number of references to the 24 elders, Great crowd, 144000 and so forth being taken from earth, surounding the throne etc. I guess it could be argued these different descriptions are not in heaven, nor that they refer to earthly people, in fact the whole of Revelation is dubious to take too literally.
    • JosephMalik
      JosephMalik

      Jwfacts,

      A new earth simply means that, not a new planet. Look again at the verses you used. Does it take a new planet to do what is documented in them? If so where?

      2 Peter 3:10-13 "Yet Jehovah's day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a hissing noise, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be discovered. [BURNED UP] 11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought YOU to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion, 12 awaiting and keeping close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah, through which [the] heavens being on fire will be dissolved and [the] elements being intensely hot will melt! 13 But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell."

      The new heavens described here is simply the Biblical term for governments that rule it as in Col 1:16 and the new earth simply describes its new population mix all of which results in righteousness on this planet. After all what are we awaiting biblically? The same thing that Martha was awaiting, the resurrection on the last day, not a translation to somewhere else as non humans that will not be on this planet.

      You said: Even the men of old, including Abraham, Isaac and Jacob believed they were going to heaven.

      Hebrews

      11:13-16 "In faith all these died, although they did not get the [fulfillment of the] promises, but they saw them afar off and welcomed them and publicly declared that they were strangers and temporary residents in the land. 14 For those who say such things give evidence that they are earnestly seeking a place of their own. 15 And yet, if they had indeed kept remembering that [place] from which they had gone forth, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they are reaching out for a better [place], that is, one belonging to heaven. Hence God is not ashamed of them, to be called upon as their God, for he has made a city ready for them."

      This is a simply look into the future not a hope for living somewhere else in non-human form. Their hope was not in the here and now or in their ability to make it so but in that future time when this city would be ready for them. Nothing here saying Abraham, Isaac or Jacob believed they were going to someplace else called heaven. People simply keep saying what is not there.

      You also said: 1 Cor makes it sound like a literal hope in heaven.

      1 Corinthians

      15:42-50 'So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised up in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised up in power. 44 It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. 45 It is even so written: "The first man Adam became a living soul." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 Nevertheless, the first is, not that which is spiritual, but that which is physical, afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is out of the earth and made of dust; the second man is out of heaven. 48 As the one made of dust [is], so those made of dust [are] also; and as the heavenly one [is], so those who are heavenly [are] also. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly one. 50 However, this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God's kingdom, neither does corruption inherit incorruption."

      This is about the resurrection of the dead, that is all. Adam was human as will be the second Adam when He returns. This heavenly one and still human one by the way is immortal and all humans resurrected by Him will be immortal as well. It is really very simple. The comparisons are to human beings made of dust not to non-human beings that never were dust. This is our heavenly or Godly hope and this simple statement that "flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom" proves that no mortal ones like the JW’s can simply walk in and live on and inherit it as they teach. Christ must choose them to be in it and either change or resurrect them for this purpose. That is one of the main points made in the text. I have yet to see the texts that teach something other than this.

      Joseph

    • Bonnie_Clyde
      Bonnie_Clyde
      Jesus was a perfect man and yet HE DIED! That is the amazing thing JWs don't seem to get. Ask them if when they make it to their New System and they fall out of a tall tree, or off that mountain in all their pictures, would they die. They're stumped.

      Well you know...a perfect person would not fall out of a tree or off a mountain. They wouldn't make that mistake.

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