by chappy 59 Replies latest jw friends
BREAKING NEWS: The teacher is being deported from Sudan, without the lashes. They gave her 15 days (which she already served) and deportation. I think EVERY western teacher and laborer should leave and let them all rot in their ignorant "bliss".
I was happy to see this! Been watching for the outcome but missed---Thanks
Islam makes me think in terms of nukes.
u
Mary,
Sorry, but that, is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. The entire human race, our cultures, our religions, our wars---everything, has evolved and a great part of that evolution is by "learning from the mistakes" of other cultures and religions along the way. That's how we progress----by learning from past mistakes, whether our own, or from others. Yes, the Old Testament is full of horrendous murders, rapes, etc. but guess what? You don't see the Jews of today still attempting to enforce these ancient and arbitrary laws on stoning wayward children, or putting to death a woman who doesn't scream while being raped, etc. Far from being perfect, they've still 'learned from mistakes' and to a great degree, so has Christianity. They don't put someone on the rack for questioning the Catholic Church anymore and they don't don't burn people at the stake. Islam has absolutely refused to progress with the rest of the world and are still enforcing barbaric rules (such as the one being discussed), and go absolutely mental at the slightest thing (such as the Danish cartoon incident). Their views of women are absolutely repulsive and their punishments for the slightest slip in decorum is sick and barbaric.
Muslims claim that it's not their religion that's responsible, but rather it's a "cultural" issue. Unfortunately, their cultures are based entirely on their religion. No culture or religion is perfect, but Islam takes first prize for being a bunch of backward, chauvenistic lunatics.
I think that you also have missed the point that I am making.
My point is about the realities and lessons of history, through the natural process of social evolution. The process of social evolution that you relate above is EXACTLY the process that I describe, if you recall. I noted, give Islam time and it will either break or adapt as has Christianity. Islam and the historical roots of Christianity both contain barbaric ethics. I hope that you can see this, in many ways one has moved beyond this because of geography and age of existence, the other is still en-route..
My argument is that when it comes to the Bible, the lessons taught by history seem to be very easily taken on board by its adherents, but they cannot seem to understand that ideologies yet learning from history should be given equal leeway in order to maintain some sort of reasoned approach.
You intone an appeal to evolution, well then, let us talk in such terms and then perhaps the point might not be missed. Supposing a human chastises a chimpanzee for not acting like a human, suggesting that the chimpanzee should learn from the lessons learned by humans. Why would this argument and approach be ridiculous? Because, though the chimpanzee and human share a common ancestry, they are at different stations in development. Islam and Christianty are likewise, due to geography and time at different stations in life, and unfortunately a modern world which knows few boundaries of time and space have thrown these two imo equally foolish ideologies into the same pot.
No Christian can judge Islam without looking through a window at their own past. Reason is the only hope.
HS
You don't see the Jews of today still attempting to enforce these ancient and arbitrary laws on stoning wayward children, or putting to death a woman who doesn't scream while being raped, etc. Far from being perfect, they've still 'learned from mistakes' and to a great degree, so has Christianity. They don't put someone on the rack for questioning the Catholic Church anymore and they don't burn people at the stake.
In other words: we've learned from past mistakes and we've evolved.
I guess you have missed news items earlier this year about a group of Orthodox Jewish men who punched and kicked an American Jewish woman for refusing to take "her place" at the back of the bus and give up her seat to a man. Out of a bus full of people, only one old man spoke up and tried to protect her and help her. Everyone else was silent. Make no mistake, the old testament is alive and well in parts of Israel and the US, not to mention the Kindom Hall. The Orthodox Catholic Church may not put people to the rack anymore, but fundamentalist Christian presidents still sanction "the rack" for a few unlucky souls in Guantanomo Bay and Syria. Remember, women have only been able to vote in the west for a century or so. The women's movement and human rights movements of the 60's were only 40 years ago. Oh, sure we've come a long way baby, but our "evolution" is only a few generations removed from our old testament ancestors. Lets not rest on our laurels and our superiority just yet!
Cog
Mind you the larger issue is why aren't the UN over there now protecting the millions who are displaced and being destroyed in that part of the world by an utterly backward and corrupt set of nations.
No kidding.
Probably because they don't have shit for natural resources.
Where'd anyone get the news that the woman had been released? Here's the latest on BBC news:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7120263.stm
Many muslims in this country (UK) have come out in support of the woman. Not for naming the teddy Mohammed, of course, but for the fact that she didn't realise the gravity of what she had done. They are openly condemning the woman's punishment and are seriously considering sending a Muslim delegation over to try and get her released.
So many of these stories stir up anger and hatred of Muslims when the majority are completely innocent. As Hilary pointed out, the Christian religion doesn't exactly have a pristine record. Sudan is a still a backward nation but one cannot condemn all muslims on what it does no more than we can condemn all Christians because of "Christian" atrocities in Africa and some of the baltic states.
What I'd like to know is how a boy can be named Mohammed and not cause offence? One would have thought that in the Muslim countries such a name would be too sacred to use for anyone else.
Ian
i'd say it stirs up anger and hatred of islam - and theocracies. and i'm fine with that. persons can be respected even though they are muslims/christians/jehovists and the like - but never BECAUSE of that.
The 'moderate muslims' are simply getting in the way. Let's say there's a large group of people who believe in trolls in the woods, and a minority cause problems (like arresting someone who makes fun of a troll). "That's not TRUE troll belief!" cry out the moderates. Yeah, so what? If the ridiculous respected troll belief didn't exist in the first place then there wouldn't be any problems over what was said about trolls. People who thought of offending trolls as an arrestable offense would be seen as the nutters they truly are - not given indirect backing to actually arrest and deport people.
Meanwhile a right wing christian blows up an abortion clinic in Alabama or puts a bomb full of nails in a trash can at the olympics...
ANYONE who believes that ANY of these "holy books" are a direct pipeline to god is dangerous!
Of course one mad bomb happy christian is entirely different to a government act backed up by police and the law courts.
These countries are so primitive its embarrassing.
If she hadn't received a punishment, and if thousands of Muslims hadn't taken to the streets AFTER FRIDAY PRAYERS with knives and sticks calling for the teacher to be shot I probably wouldn't have said any of the following-
But does anyone remember an 80s kids show called Superted?
Intro- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urJJSVy4DFQ
It's so similar to the story of Muhammad it's uncanny!
Someone should make a parody of it.
