The beautiful, beautiful 'Theory of Evolution'.

by nicolaou 41 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  sweetstuff

  Good thread Nic.

  Ok, here is my problem with the "natural selection" theory. Humans have an extremely fragile shell, in comparison to many of our animal counterparts, if indeed natural selection (Darwin's theory originally) is true, then how the hell did humans evolve to be at the top of the food change, it would make more logical sense that a creature of more strength physically (i.e. a gorilla, a rhino) would have evolved to surpass human beings. IMO

  I don't believe in the christian idealogy of "God" but I find it extremely hard to believe that the vast flora and fauna on this planet, in fact the planet itself, it just a big accident. How can you make matter out of nothing? I have asked that to a few evolutionists and they have many contrived answers, just as contrived as christians trying to prove God exists. It's all theory. No one has proven crap all either way. There are a million theories, pro and con evolution/creation. Personally, until I have absolute proof either way, the jury is still out for me.

  After all, "Lucy" is mostly plaster of paris, along with all the other "early man" skeletons that have been uncovered. When they find a bunch of them, intact, I will rethink it. That being said, I don't believe in some "God" figure who hails down punishment and law to humanity either. That makes absolutely no logical sense either. If "God" existed as the biblical "God" he's got some splainin to do. Because he has to save face in front of some of his creatures, he'll let the rest of his creations suffer for an undetermined amount of time, hmmm, where is the "love" in that??

  I prefer to think that perhaps something greater than ourselves helped create our existence, for no other purpose than to create. That humanity is just one of countless creations across the universe, who were given a push and left to develop on our own. What we do with that gift, is entirely on our shoulders and there is no savior coming to save us from ourselves. We have the ability to improve all on our own.

  People who are christian often say, that man cannot save himself, cannot direct his own "step". Thus the need for a daddy figure to punish and scold us into good behavior. I look at the vast leaps in humanity even in the last 30 years and disagree. When before in history have parents stopped and said, this beating of kids, isn't right, we should try to reason with our children, talk to them? Only a short while ago, it was globally common place to take out a belt and wawloup your child for any given reason, it is not acceptable today. It's not acceptable to call someone, a "Jap" or well you get the drift..humanity is improving for the better, but no great change happens overnight, ok I got off topic there, lol.

  But for myself, disbelief in religion and the stereotypical "God" doesn't translate into the belief that everything is just a big accident. If truly it was all an accident and it is the case that natural selection is the rule of the universe, why would a parent die to save their child, knowing full well they could have other children? If it is truly survivial of the fittest, it would make logical sense that selflessness could not exist to that degree. Heck, maybe aliens created mankind and blueprinted us with certain emotional and mental characteristics. Is that theory any less probable than a big bang, or god existing? Me thinks not. Like I said, the jury is still out.
• 

  R.Crusoe

  Humanity is creating a microcosm of life on Earth and its Darwinist ideology of survival of the fittest. It is creating its own human evolution scenario where the thinking of humans, which controls much of the rest of life on Earths futures, is in a battlefield for supremacy and sustainability. Some victors ideologies will rule in their lifetimes but what ideas will endure and prove sustainable for the lives of those whose progeny go on to inhabit and maintain life on Earth in the next millennium?
• 

  Caedes

  Sweetstuff,

  We do have several huge evolutionary advantage over all all other creatures on this planet, efficient communication, large brains, strong communal and societal bonds, the ability to make tools and the ability to think in abstracts. All of these traits give us a huge step-up compared with any other animal.

  I can't answer your questions re abiogenesis since there are only hypotheses and there is no proof at the moment my only comment regarding abiogenesis is that I feel certain that, whatever the answer is, it will be a natural rather than supernatural one.

  Your other point regarding selflessness and natural selection is a good one, I would recommend looking up game theory. Game theory goes a long way to explaining altruistic behaviour in animal society and there have been some very interesting experiments on the subject.
• 

  sweetstuff

  Sweetstuff,

  We do have several huge evolutionary advantage over all all other creatures on this planet, efficient communication, large brains, strong communal and societal bonds, the ability to make tools and the ability to think in abstracts. All of these traits give us a huge step-up compared with any other animal.

  I can't answer your questions re abiogenesis since there are only hypotheses and there is no proof at the moment my only comment regarding abiogenesis is that I feel certain that, whatever the answer is, it will be a natural rather than supernatural one.

  Your other point regarding selflessness and natural selection is a good one, I would recommend looking up game theory. Game theory goes a long way to explaining altruistic behaviour in animal society and there have been some very interesting experiments on the subject.

  My point about humanity as being evolutionarily advanced, was just this. I would think that going back millions of years, a creature who was physically superior to man, would have evolved mentality to be superior as well. Just something that has always made me wonder.

  I will check out game theory. Thanks for the suggestion.
• 

  Caedes

  My point about humanity as being evolutionarily advanced, was just this. I would think that going back millions of years, a creature who was physically superior to man, would have evolved mentality to be superior as well. Just something that has always made me wonder.

  I watched a program regarding homo sapiens (or an earlier ancester) coexisting with neanderthals, the program asked the question did we as a species contribute to neanderthal mans extinction. Neanderthal man was physically superior and was almost our equal intellectually (certainly compared to any other species)

  Interesting question. Perhaps our fear of anyone different makes the outcome inevitable, we would never have put up with the competition.

  I can imagine the scene in the cave now 'you are not going out with that neanderthal from cave 9b, especially not wearing those furs'
• 

  nicolaou

  If I was forced to believe that mutations are always a good thing, I would throw up too.

  Oompa; Who made the claim that "mutations are always a good thing"? From the survivalist perspective a mutation can indeed be 'good' or 'bad' and natural selection will ensure that the 'bad' stubby-legged game are devoured first allowing the 'good' swift-legged game to continue to reproduce.

  it would make more logical sense that a creature of more strength physically (i.e. a gorilla, a rhino) would have evolved to surpass human beings.

  Sweetstuff; We have big brains and machine guns! Give a gorilla an Uzi and a high IQ and I guess we'd be in trouble. I noticed you used the word 'accident' in your post a couple of times. I prefer to see life, not as an evolutionary accident, but as the most profound expression of the Universe. It is as if the Cosmos breathed a single word and the word gave birth to us all. The word is 'LIVE'.

  But yes, it is by the most incredible good luck that you and I are communicating today. I guess we are here to determine our own purpose and to give our lives the meaning we choose for ourselves. For most of us that is simply to be good and kind to each and to give and take love. Sadly too many choose a purpose based on hatred and division.
• 

  nicolaou

  Here's a simple example of evolution in action - bacteria.

  Evolutionary changes can happen very fast in smaller, simpler types of living things. For example, many disease causing bacteria can no longer be killed with some of the antibiotics that were designed to eradicate them. These medicines have only been in use for about eighty years, they used to work, then they became less effective and now many of them are useless. Why?

  The bacteria evolved so that they could survive the attacks from these drugs.
• 

  sweetstuff

  The bacteria evolved so that they could survive the attacks from these drugs.

  Interesting and valid point Nic. But, alas, why do some men have only 3 inches? I guess they won the shortdraw on genetic evolution huh? Sorry, I had to "inject" a "little" humour into this convo. HA HA!
• 

  Warlock

  Does that mean that the people should only be prosecuted for crimes if there was a witness to that crime?

  Or does it have to be two witnesses?

  Abiogenesis will no doubt one day have it's own theory, it won't require somebody going back in time to discover what happened, it will be based on the evidence around us.

  Do you ignore the evidence for evolution because no-one has 'was there when it happened'? (of course also ignoring the fact that it is an ongoing process that is going on around us as we speak!)

  It's a good job you aren't this skeptical regarding proof of ghosties and things that go bump in the night eh?

  I am just asking for the same level of "proof" that I have been asked for in the past.

  Warlock
• 

  Clam

  why do some men have only 3 inches?

  Sweetstuff this phenomenon has resulted in countless companies evolving to help increase penis size using pills and lotions, although their ability to spam email has noticeably decreased.