The MIstake Witnesses Will Make On March 10, 2008

by t33ap80c 39 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  a Christian

  "When Christ inspected the faithful and discreet slave’ in 1918, he found those anointed ones on earth to be faithful in providing spiritual ‘food at the proper time.’ Hence, Jesus was pleased thereafter to appoint them ‘over all his belongings.’ (Read Matthew 24:45-47)" – January 15, 2008 Watchtower, p, 24, par. 1

  My question for Jehovah's Witnesses is how do they know that Jesus did this? How did the men who run the Watchtower Society first find out that Christ had made this appointment? Did Christ tell them he did so while appearing to them in a dream or vision? Did he send an angel to deliver this news to them? If he did not, how did they find out that Christ had appointed them to be his "Faithful and Discreet Slave" and thereafter act as his sole channel for distributing Bible truth on the earth?
  
  Many Jehovah's Witnesses are likely to answer this question by saying, "His appointment seems obvious. After all, look at how much better Jehovah's Witnesses understand the Bible than other so-called Christian sects. Look at our preaching. Who else preaches like we do? Look at the love we have among ourselves." However, even if all these things are true, do they really prove that Jesus Christ ever made such an appointment? After all, every Christian sect believes their group has the most truth and believes their group is the one most approved by Jesus Christ.
  
  If Jesus himself never actually told the men who run the Watchtower Society that he was then declaring them to be faithful, and that he was then appointing them over all his belongings, was it right for them to tell the world that Christ himself had done those things? Since Jesus Christ himself made no such announcement, the men who ran the Society in back then had no way of being certain that Christ had ever really made such an appointment. And, neither do the men who run the Society today.
  
  The parable of the faithful and discreet slave informs us that when Christ returns he himself will judge which of his servants have faithfully taken good care of all he entrusted to them. With this in mind, is it the place of Christ's slaves to proclaim themselves to be faithful? No, it is not. Christ said he will judge his slaves. For a slave to judge himself as faithful and then tell all the world that Christ himself made that judgment is a very presumptuous thing to do. And God assures us in His Word that, "I shall actually cause the pride of the presumptuous ones to cease." (Isaiah 13:11)
• 

  t33ap80c

  Hi Alpha,

  You said, "I have studied with a Witness who decided to research some of the history after studying with me… The thing that didn't set any alarm bells ringing with him was that the conversation arose from discussing the Revelation Climax book's claim that "since the mid 1870s... 1914 was predicted as the START of the time of trouble. He even called Bethel to verify the information."

  If you showed him that July 15, 1894 Watch Tower where Russell predicted the exact opposite* and the Witness still allowed the "Revelation Climax" book and someone at Bethel to contradict what Russell said, it suggests that he is not yet ready to face the possibility that the Society may not be God’s organization.

  All we can do is try to bring important things to their attention as mildly and gently as possible and then leave it up to God to "give them repentance leading to an accurate knowledge of the truth" about the Watchtower Society and its Governing Body. – 2 Timothy 2:23-25

  I have to keep reminding myself that it isn’t the evidence we may have that will bring them back to their proper senses but rather it is God giving them repentance that will do it. (v. 25, 26)

  You did ‘ring a bell’ and it cannot be unrung. But God is going to have to help him understand what that ‘ring’ means. Apparently He won’t help someone get the sense of what it means until they are willing to face what it means. i.e. the Society is not His organization.

  __________________

  * Russell said, "Bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning but the end of the time of trouble."

  Don Cameron
• 

  AlphaOmega

  Thanks Don,

  He called Bethel and verified the information that I gave him from the Watchtower that you mentioned and from some of Russell's books that I have in my collection.

  He told me that he wasn't sure about how genuine my stuff was so he called Bethel and found it was all genuine... yet he didn't react visibly to it.

  His response was that the writers of the Revelation Climax book obviously hadn't done their research accurately.

  My counter response was that if I couldn't rely on them to interpret matters from their own history in the last 100 years, how on earth does he expect me to rely on them about spiritual issues that span back over thousands of years and that affect my eternal destiny.

  He accepted that I shouldn't.

  After much discussion, he accepted that due to the disfellowshipping arrangement, I would be better off NOT joining the JWs as it would be harmful for me to join up with doubts such as this, only to be kicked out later

  I have shown him more stuff in subsequent studies that we have had and he had revealed that he doesn't agree with the FDS on all points, he seemed to hint that I should separate out the man made teachings from the scriptural teachings.

  That will be a matter for subsequent studies.

  I can't help feel that I am supposed to keep on chipping away with this guy (an elder)... maybe God is working on him to wake up ?
• 

  VoidEater

  Alpha: You ar a better person than I...bless you!
• 

  t33ap80c

  Alpha,

  You said your Witness friend acknowledged that he doesn’t necessarily agree with the FDS on all points.

  I wonder if he agrees with their interpretation of Matthew 24:45-47 as it appears in the January 15, 2008 Watchtower. Does he believe that the Society received that appointment mentioned in verse 47 because they had been so faithful and discreet about what they had been teaching down till 1918-1919?

  If he doesn’t agree then I wonder why he still associates with the organization.

  Does he believe that despite what he doesn’t agree with, the Society is still God’s organization?

  Do you know how he feels about such matters?

  Don
• 

  t33ap80c

  Hi Hubert,

  Here again is the quote from the upcoming March 16, 2008 Watchtower Study:

  "When Christ inspected the faithful and discreet slave’ in 1918, he found those anointed ones on earth to be faithful in providing spiritual ‘food at the proper time.’ Hence, Jesus was pleased thereafter to appoint them ‘over all his belongings.’ (Read Matthew 24:45-47)"

  You asked if this could be used to persuade Witnesses to conduct a Watchtower history study before delving into a Bible Study.

  I feel this creates the perfect opening to ask for a history study because you are not the one bringing up the subject. The January 15, 2008 Watchtower brings it up.*

  If it were me I would sincerely acknowledge to the Witness that if Jesus did in fact give the Society the above appointment (which therefore means that it is God’s organization) then I would surely want to know. Who wouldn’t want to know?

  I know it is not easy, but I would encourage you to keep reminding yourself that you are the student so that you don’t come across to the Witness as if you are trying to take over their roll as the teacher.

  Since you will only be dealing with the Society’s pre-1919 teachings that the Society already admits were not true, you don’t need to prove that any of those teachings were not true. And so there is nothing to debate with them about. You don’t want to put them in a position where they feel they need to defend the Society’s history. You want them to discover it.

  Hopefully they will discover several very important things they didn’t know as they hear what you discovered in the "Proclaimers" book.

  You don’t have to disagree with their interpretation of Matthew 24:45-47. You just need to clearly understand their interpretation and then strictly hold them it when conducting your inspection.

  Note: They will want to process all of the Society’s pre-1919 teachings that were not true according to the "old light" way they interpret Proverbs 4:18 so that those teachings don't mean anything to them today. But according to their interpretation Jesus would have processed them according to the food-at-the-proper-time way mentioned in Matthew 24:45, which means that they all would have failed his inspection in 1918.

  See chapter 21 of "Captives of a Concept" which gives some suggestions on how I would try to go about helping Witnesses to see what the "Proclaimers" book is willing to teach them.

  If you have any specific questions please let me know.

  __________________

  * Note: The March 16, 2008 Watchtower Study article doesn’t make any attempt to explain the above quote that appears in the first paragraph of the article. Nor does it offer any proof for what is being said. I serves only to remind Jehovah’s Witnesses of the concept holding them captive, which is that the Society is God’s "faithful and discreet slave" organization.

  Don
• 

  oompa

  a christian: My question for Jehovah's Witnesses is how do they know that Jesus did this? How did the men who run the Watchtower Society first find out that Christ had made this appointment? Did Christ tell them he did so while appearing to them in a dream or vision? Did he send an angel to deliver this news to them? If he did not, how did they find out that Christ had appointed them to be his "Faithful and Discreet Slave" and thereafter act as his sole channel for distributing Bible truth on the earth?

  Funny, I did a thread not long ago about "jesus came in 1914 and nobody noticed?"....same with this. nobody noticed but it does seem logical that if it happened the people chosen would frikkin know! They dreamed up the idea about 20 years later or so just to make JW not look too stupid for picking the 1914 to be the end of the world. Thank god for them at least a big bad war broke out cause that let them create their own strange puzzle with pieces being made for to this day...........oompa
• 

  justhuman

  Here we go again...
• 

  seek2find

  I haven't seen much discussion on it here, but Ray Franz made a good point on his recent trip to Romania in his talk where he pointed out that in the Parallel account in Luke chapter 12 that the Faithfull servant there is broken down into individuals with one receiving many strokes and the other receiving few. It doesn't fit with the Slave being a class. seek2find
• 

  Confession

  Just picked up my copy of Ray Franz's "In Search of Christian Freedom," and found something I'd underlined...

  "When I was a child, my speech, my outlook, and my thoughts were all childish. When I grew up, I had finished with childish things.

  Only a system that wishes to exercise exaggerated control over others, to dominate them and their thinking, would wish to see people continue in a childish state, would hinder or even block their growth toward less and less dependence on that system and more and more personal strength and ability to make sound decisions on their own."