Oh man, 2 Mormons were walking on my road as I was driving home from work, I stopped them, asked them firstly why in the world they were walking on a DIRT road in their suits where the houses are hundreds of yards apart, and then to come back to my house.
Wow, it was so interesting to see the hundreds of Mormon articles I've been reading in prep for talking to the JW (who had to cancel on me to go on a trip, plus I'm kinda wary about talking to her now, as I know this will sound silly, but her Mom and fam stopped by the coffee shop, and I know my boss the owner cannot afford the loss of customers...who knows how many of them are Witlesses!)
anyways, one was from Utah, one from Texas....the parroting and the language that was so present in those articles was dumbly flung at me willy nilly in adverse to my arguments. Yes, I did end up using the C word, as I am much less cautious with Mormons due to the fact that their doctrine is ever so much more overtly ridiculous.
Things I brought up:
Iglesia Ni Cristo, Jehovah's Witnesses, HWA, Sun Myung Moon, etc. all say the Church apostasized in the first century, and they are the restorers of the true gospels.
I asked, what is THEIR motivation for making such claim, and does it hold water historically. I mean, even if they believe in the Bible (insofarasitistranslatedcorrectly yada yada) it says "the gates of hell shall not prevail" so how does that fly with the church imploding 30 years after it was "founded?"
I brought up:
blacks being agents of Satan (hahahahahahah!)
guess what the response was, "Well actually this goes back to Cain in the Bible, saying him and all his descendents will be marked."
I said "Does it say they'll be black?????"
I just said its preposterous for any person to say that black people are the devils spawn.
I brought up DNA. Where was the evidence for Israelites and Jesus coming to America (hahahahahahahaha!).
I brought up the Book of Abraham. Shocking to find out they didn't know that the scroll that Joseph Smith translated by the Holy Spirit was later translated by an Egyptian expert, and found to have utterly no resemblance to the pish tosh ramblings of Joseph.
They just kept talking about the Spirit testifying and saying that if you asked God for truth, would he lie to you? Kept repeating, as if as an antidote or a charm against my evil incantations, I KNOW Joseph Smith was a prophet yada yada.
I said, well Jehovah's Witnesses believe the Watchtower is God's channel of Communication, but yet, we have more than one hundred years record to examine this claim.
I brought up Joseph Smith's prophecy that he wouldn't live beyond 84 because the world wad gonna end y'all.
I just ad nauseum said "that's exactly what this or that org would say" bringing up specific examples, until I finally had to break and use the C word.
I recommended to the one who wasn't saying every 2 seconds, "we need to get out of here, were gonna be late for dinner" and glancing at his watch, that he pick up a copy of "Combatting Cult Mind Control" from Steve Hassan.
Funny parallels, whenever I would bring up a question that would throw doubt on the Church, the dorky one asked me "where'd you get your information from" in a way that I knew was exactly what a JW would be trained to ask. If it questions Church authority, it must be from axe grinding wicked apostates.
I asked why they thought someone might apostasize from JW's, if it was solely because of reasons of bad character, a bad heart, etc. after getting him to say "no" to questions of "was this a true prophecy" w/ regard to 1914 etc. So I guess they don't have that information.
The robotic one ended up telling me I relied to much on Men, which I IMMEDIATELY said "NO! YOU rely on men" all the prophets, and Joseph and the bullshit.
He ended up telling me I was ignorant.
Ad nauseum I brought up Witdom again, saying that the JW's weren't aware of such things as peodophilia, UN, Organ transplants, and if I were to talk to a Witness, THEY would be completely ignorant of these things, because anything contradictory to the teachings was not allowed, and the history was whitewashed.
I'm not the ignorant one bro.
Anyways, good times w/ Mormons. I reckon a Witness would never have been as gracious at the end as them, or hung around as long.
Of course, they'll just believe I'm a tool of Satan, and it's just more proof that they have "the truth" because their beliefs are suffering persecution.
I must say, in my research on Mormons, on the official LDS.org site, there is nothing that has been as creepy or disturbing as the religious exercises parents are instructed to do with their children. It is heavy mind control and manipulation.
I hope I planted a seed of doubt. Maybe they will just brush it off and be reinforced because 12 million other people have been deceived in the same way. Like the Alien Cult. The more they're wrong, the more right they seem to be believed to be.
I just gave 2 Mormon Elders Hell!
by smellsgood 31 Replies latest jw friends
-
smellsgood
-
poppers
I had two Mormons come to my place yesterday as I was working outside. The first thing they did was ask if I needed any help with anything. This was the first time I took them up on their offer (every time they come they ask). So, I put them to work raking leaves and bagging them. They worked for an hour and 40 minutes. While working we talked, mostly me explaining how I view and experience life and why religion isn't really such a good thing because it obscures with one's fundamental nature. They had never heard the kind of things I talked about before. I kept the conversation focused on my ideas and when they tried to get me to consider theirs I showed them why those ideas wouldn't work with me. When we were done working I asked if they still thought I needed their religion or any religion, and surprisingly one of them said no. The other one thought I did but he had no reason to support that answer.
-
JWdaughter
I agree that the LDS members can be just as deluded as JWs, but I have to give their church one bit of credit. . .as well as the membership overall. They do not quash questioning to the extent that the JWs do. Yesterday at their LDS thrift store, Deseret Industries, I came across a book about LDS websites. It did NOT discourage research. It was strong on apologetic sites, but was not shy about directing them to opposing sites. The supportive websites addressed the questions of Xtians and opposers. So, I would not say that LDS folks are really any more deluded than any other religion. They pick and choose what they will choose to believe. There is no culture that tells them that questioning is evil, there is no system in place that makes punishes those who question.
Now I know that the church will take action against those who 'go too far' in there efforts to reform. However, LDS folks can go miles further in their investigations and CONCLUSIONS than JWs. I have been in LDS sunday schools where the concept of ideas that were not set in stone, but were 'questionable' were dealt with. Frankly, they have a lot of room to question and challenge a lot of what they hear. JWs are in a straightjacket, but there is a much wider range of allowable dissent in the LDS church. Just my observation.
BTW, I loved the last post, where the 'householder' engaged the elders in an honest conversation about his own beliefs. AND got some yard work accomplished. I keep hoping they will come by on a nice day---I need my lawn mowed:). I will try that approach. It is kinder and actually encourages them to think without getting defensive or feeling attacked.
Blessings to you all. I appreciate everyone on this board!
-
knock knock
I love the idea of getting some work out of them too! Now I'm going to hope some jw's or hell, even those baptists come back around. I've got enough projects to keep them busy dare I say it...for eternity! :)
-
worldtraveller
I learned a lot about the Morons from a very reliable source. An episode of South Park. Yes I did.
-
smellsgood
JWDaughter....
"but I have to give their church one bit of credit. . .as well as the membership overall. They do not quash questioning to the extent that the JWs do."
You may be surprised actually. In matters of higher education the Mormon Church applauds itself unendingly that it exorts education (consider Brigham Young University!) Probably for Accounting more than Comparative Religion or something like that. The articles published by Mormons, by the big wigs, display the same sort of information, social, behavioural and emotional control as the WT,,,just see for yourself. This is the very tip of the iceberg.
I experienced it tonight, when, like I said the Mormon asked in a way that I knew he was trying to discredit my information because of it's source not being from the LDS or whatever asking "Where did you get your information" If I had said internet, I suppose he would have scoffed. They pointed me only to official sites, particularly fairlds.org where some nutjob has found archaeological evidence of Nephi. (Kinda like Luna Lovegood in Harry Potter believing she received a snorkak tusk for her b-day, when there are none.)
I suppose not to the extent, but they definitely discourage opposing information, apostates, and doubts, as the following shows:
GOOD ASSOCIATION FOR MORMONS IS:::
President Thomas S. Monson
First Counselor in the First Presidency
Remember the words from the Book of Mormon: “Wickedness never was happiness.” 5
Essential to your success and happiness is the advice “Choose your friends with caution.” We tend to become like those whom we admire, and they are usually our friends. *********We should associate with those who, like us, are planning not for temporary convenience, shallow goals, or narrow ambition—but rather with those who value the things that matter most, even eternal objectives.**********
******Your parents want you to make it to the celestial kingdom to live with your Heavenly Father. The Internet is full of things that can harm you spiritually, but with the assistance and loving concern of your parents, it is much harder for Satan to influence you.******
Cade Taylor, 14
Orem, Utah
There are a lot of good things on the Internet, but there are also a lot of bad things. Maybe you and your parents should agree that you will only use the Internet if your parents are home and they know you are using the computer. I know it works, because it is a rule at my house.
THE EVER PRESENT "SPENDING TIME IN THEOCRATIC ACTIVITIES RATHER THAN...."
Crissy Renda, 14
Salt Lake City, Utah
Many of the things on the Internet do not help us to live up to Church standards. We need to keep our minds focused on what’s important, and most of the time it’s not on the Internet.
Emily Evans, 13
Sierra Vista, Arizona
Our parents are here to protect us and keep us safe. Our parents love us. Let them know what you are doing on the ‘net.
Paul Willoughby, 18
Portland, Oregon
You should spend time on more important things. Set aside a small amount of time each day to use the computer, but then focus on the other things in your life.
Brandi Zierenberg, 15
Moorpark, California
There is a lot of information on the Internet which is displeasing to the Lord. You may even find that you accidentally come across things which are inappropriate. If you listen to your parents, you’ll be kept safe.
Jo-Anne Edwards, 15
Neath, Wales
[photo] Photography by Lana Leishman, posed by model
[photo] President James E. Faust, Second Counselor in the First Presidency, had this to say about the Internet: “The miracles of modern technology have brought efficiency into our lives in ways not dreamed of a generation ago, yet with this new technology has come a deluge of new challenges to our morals and our values. Some tend to rely more on technology than on theology” (Ensign, Nov. 1999, 47–48).
Spiritual nutrients, which keep us spiritually healthy, can lose their potency and strength if we do not live worthy of the divine guidance we need. The Savior has told us: “Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.”9 We need to keep our minds and bodies clean from all forms of addiction and pollution. We would never choose to eat spoiled or contaminated food. In the same selective way, we should be careful not to read or view anything that is not in good taste.********* MUCH OF THE SPIRITUAL POLLUTION THAT COMES INTO OUR LIVES COMES IN THROUGH THE INTERNET,**********computer games, television shows and movies that are highly suggestive of or graphically portray humanity’s baser attributes. Because we live in such an environment, we need to increase our spiritual strength.
THEY TALK ALOT ABOUT PORN, I BASICALLY BELIEVE IT'S TO GIVE THE MORMON A GENERAL ATTITUDE THAT THE INTERNET IS DEBASED, DEBAUCHED, AND WICKED
Marcus B. Nash, “The Great Plan of Happiness,” Ensign, Nov 2006, 49–50
SATANS ALWAYS OUT TO GET THEM IF THEY ARE NOT "THEOCRATICALLY ENGAGED"
Now to the second lesson from my fishing experience: just as a fish in a mountain stream must be careful of the lures placed in its path to avoid being pulled away from the water,
**************so must you and I be wise in order to avoid being pulled away from a happy, gospel-centered life.***********
Remember that, as Lehi observed, the devil “seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself” and obtains “power to captivate” (2 Nephi 2:27, 29) us when we involve ourselves in unclean and evil things. Thus, do not be deceived into even nibbling at unworthy things, for Satan stands ready to set the hook. It was the very real risk of the hook being set subtly or suddenly that led the ancient prophet Moroni—who actually saw our day (see Mormon 8:35)—to pointedly warn you and me to “touch not the evil gift, nor the unclean thing” (Moroni 10:30; emphasis added).
There is much that is evil and unclean in music, the Internet, movies, magazines, and in alcohol, drugs, and tobacco. As to any evil and unclean thing, my young friends, do not even touch it! Disguised in such things is a hook that sets subtly and much more suddenly than you dare think—and it can be an excruciatingly painful process to extract the hook. Alma described that for him the process of repentance was “nigh unto death” (Mosiah 27:28); indeed, he stated that “nothing [could be] so exquisite and so bitter as were my pains” (Alma 36:21).
There may be some of you who have been involved with that which is evil or unclean. Take hope in the doctrinal and historical fact that Alma’s faith in the Lord led him to repent, and as a direct result of his repentance he experienced such happiness through the power of the Atonement of Christ that, in his words, “there can be nothing so exquisite and sweet as was my joy” (Alma 36:21). Such will be your experience as you seek the Lord through repentance.
James E. Faust, “We Believe in You,” New Era, Oct 2006, 2–9
The greatest leverage for good, however, is on the spiritual level. This will come as you use your spiritual gifts to enhance your natural gifts and abilities. This spiritual leverage can be diminished or even destroyed if you get too close to the Devil’s Throat.
******** For example, I warn you against the dangers that lurk in the Internet, movies, and books, which lead away from your destiny. Daily study of the scriptures is an excellent way to keep your spirituality.*********
TIME DOMINATION!!! IMMERSE YOUR MIND ONLY IN "APPROVED DOCTRINAL THINGS"
You are children of great promise. You have received the covenants of the Lord with His people. Be careful not to get too close to the Devil’s Throat. He would like to devour you.
Carlos E. Asay, “Opposition to the Work of God,” Ensign, Nov 1981, 67
Image
BEWARE, SINCE THE MORMON CHURCH IS THE "TRUE CHURCH" THERE ARE MANY DEVILS TRYING TO BRING IT DOWN...
While pondering a theme for this conference assignment, I had occasion to conduct some business over the telephone with a member of the Council of the Twelve. In that conversation I asked, “Would you help me select a suitable subject for my conference assignment?”
He said, “Yes,” in a very reassuring voice. And then he said, “Carlos, pray.”
I therefore share with you the results of many prayers, and I do so prayerfully and obediently and very humbly.
On November 1, 1857, Elder George A. Smith delivered a memorable discourse, which included this old Chinese fable:
“A man travelling through the country came to a large city, very rich and splendid; he looked at it and said to his guide, ‘This must be a very righteous people, for I can only see but one little devil in this great city.’
“The guide replied, ‘You do not understand, sir. This city is so perfectly given up to wickedness … that it requires but one devil to keep them all in subjection.’
“Travelling on a little farther, he came to a rugged path and saw an old man trying to get up the hill side, surrounded by seven great, big, coarse-looking devils.
“ ‘Why,’ says the traveller, ‘this must be a tremendously wicked old man! See how many devils there are around him!’
“ ‘This,’ replied the guide, ‘is the only righteous man in the country; and there are seven of the biggest devils trying to turn him out of his path, and they all cannot do it.’ ” (Journal of Discourses, 5:363–64.)
After relating the fable, Elder Smith added that “the devil has the world so perfectly at his disposal that it requires few devils to keep it in subjection” and that “the whole legion of devils has nothing to do but look after the ‘Mormons’ and stir up the hearts of the children of men to destroy them—to put them out of existence.” (Journal of Discourses, 5:364.)
**********The evil one has attempted on many occasions in all dispensations to put out of existence, if you will, many of God’s children. Sometimes he, himself, has assumed the deluder’s role. Other times he has worked through those who have stepped to his side of the line(WHICH MEANS APOSTATES).*********
For instance, in the Book of Mormon, we read of three anti-Christs. Each was deceived, each preached against those who believed in Christ, and each sought openly to destroy the church of God. Their patterns of deceit were similar. They taught false doctrines, spread lies, referred to prophecies as foolish traditions, accused Church leaders of perverting the right way of God, and baited the people by referring to their faith as a foolish and vain hope. (See Jacob 7; Alma 1; and Alma 30.)
When we read about the anti-Christs of former days, we marvel at how perverted their thinking became and we marvel at how successful they were in deceiving men and women. We also wonder why some of the people were so gullible—so easily misled. And with all this marveling and wondering, we tend to niche the anti-Christs in some corner of ancient history and go about our unguarded ways. This is dangerous. It could result in loss of faith; and, in a spiritual sense, it could put us out of existence.
DO YOU CONSIDER THIS TO BE LESS OF A CONTROL MECHANISM THAN THE WT USES? SATAN? APOSTATES, LIES, FAITH KILLERS, FALSE ACCUSSERS. HOW IS THIS LANGUAGE DIFFERENT FROM THE WITCHTOWER? SOWING DOUBTS AND DISTUBING THE PEACE OF "TRUE BELIEVERS." COULD BE RIGHT OUT OF A WT.
*******Since the spring of 1820, Lucifer has led a relentless attack against the Latter-day Saints and their leaders. A parade of anti-Christs,
*****anti-Mormons, and apostate groups have appeared on the scene.******* Many are still among us and have released new floods of lies and false accusations. These faith-killers and testimony-thieves use personal contacts, the printed word, electronic media, and other means of communication to sow doubts and to disturb the peace of true believers.
Two months ago we received a tender letter from a bishop. He informed us that he had been involved in an excommunication of a recent convert. The new convert had fallen under the influence of a very dedicated apostate who was successful in destroying the convert’s testimony. It seems that, to discredit Joseph Smith and subsequent prophets, the apostate cited changes made in Church publications over the years.
AD HOMINEM, THE APOSTATE IS A DEBASED BEING, INTERESTED IN DISPELLING LIGHT AND SPREADING DARKNESS
**********The approach used by the apostate is common among those who are more interested in shadows than in light.***********
Their logic, if followed, would have them burning the New Testament because Luke’s account of the gospel is not exactly like Matthew’s or because the book of Acts reports two differing versions of Paul’s vision on the road to Damascus. (See Acts 9:1–9 and Acts 22:4–11.) Belief in modern prophets and continuous revelation is absent in the lives of many apostates. They would pin their hopes for salvation upon things other than those related to living prophets and living faith.
MALICIOUS AND EVIL DESIGNS TO SHOW A POTENTIAL CONVERT THE TRUE HISTORY OF MORMONISM:::
The questions follow: How do we respond to such malicious and evil designs? Do we strike back? Allow me to suggest a course of action—one which is in harmony with the teachings of the Savior, and one which, if followed, will be in harmony with the wise counsel of prophets past and present:
AVOID PEOPLE WHO QUESTION YOUR FAITH, SHUN THEM
*********1. Avoid those who would teardown your faith. Faith-killers are to be shunned. The seeds which they plant in the minds and hearts of men grow like cancer and eat away the Spirit.**********
True messengers of God are builders—not destroyers. We send our missionaries into the world to teach and to assist people in receiving truth line upon line until the fulness of the gospel is received. (See D&C 98:112.) As one new convert testified: “My previous church provided me the chapter on mortality. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints added two more chapters pertaining to the premortal and postmortal existences.”
2. Keep the commandments. President Brigham Young promised, “All we have to do is to go onward and upward, and keep the commandments of our Father and God; and he will confound our enemies.” (Discourses of Brigham Young, sel. John A. Widtsoe, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1957, p. 347.) If we obey holy laws, we will take upon ourselves “the whole armour of God” and we will be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. (See Eph. 6:11–18.) Moreover, obedience ensures us of the guidance and protection of the Holy Spirit.
DO EVERYTHING THE CHURCH COMMANDS: FOLLOW ORDERS!!! EVEN IF IT IS WRONG, BUT GOD'S MOUTHPIECE CAN'T BE WRONG (WHO'S DIZZY?)
3.******** Follow the living prophets, as we have just been admonished. One Church leader taught: “Always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it. … But you don’t need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray.”*********
(Heber J. Grant, quoted by Marion G. Romney in Conference Report, Oct. 1960, p. 78.) We walk in uncharted mine fields and place our souls in jeopardy when we receive the teachings of anyone except he that is ordained of God. (See D&C 43:2–7; D&C 52:9.)
DO NOT ENGAGE IN AN OPEN MINDED DISCUSSION. POINTS OF DOCTRINE SUCH AS BLACK PEOPLE IS THE DEVILS SPAWN. DEBATING IS SATANIC.
4. Do not contend or debate over points of doctrine. The Master warned that “the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil.” (3 Ne. 11:29.) We are inconsistent if we resort to Satanic tactics in attempting to achieve righteous ends. Such inconsistency results only in frustration, loss of the Spirit, and ultimate defeat. Remember, “We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege.” (Eleventh Article of Faith.)
5. Search the scriptures. Few of us would go astray or lose our way if we regarded the scriptures as our personal guide or compass. (See Alma 37:44.) The iron rod is the word of God, and if held to, we will not fall.
DO MORE!! FOCUS YOUR TIME AND ENERGY ON WHAT REALLY MATTERS, CHURCHY THINGS!!!! YOU COULD BE LURED BY SATAN IF YOUR NOT PROPERLY OCCUPIED WITH YOUR NOSE IN D&C
*******6. Do not be swayed or diverted from the mission of the Church. There are those who would draw you off course and cause you to waste time and energies. Satan used a diversion ploy when he tempted Christ in the wilderness. The Savior’s decisive response, “Get thee hence, Satan” (Matt. 4:10), is a proper example for all of us.******
7. Pray for your enemies. Christ said to the Nephites, “Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them who despitefully use you and persecute you.” (3 Ne. 12:44; see also Matt. 5:44; 3 Ne. 12:10–12.) While on the cross, the Savior pled, “Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.” (Luke 23:34.) There are many who are kept from the truth—not because they don’t want it, but because they know not where to find it.
8. Practice “pure religion.” Involve yourself in Christian service. Succor the needs of the sick and poor; visit the fatherless and widows, and be charitable to all whether in the Church or out of the Church. (See James 1:27 and Alma 1:30.)
REMEMBER, WHEN NOTHING MAKES SENSE LOGICALLY, HISTORICALLY, ARCHAEOLOGICALLY OR ANY OTHER WAY, TO JUST BELIEVE IT BECAUSE ITS WRITTEN DOWN::::
9. Remember that there may be many questions for which we have no answers and that some things have to be accepted simply on faith. An angel of the Lord asked Adam, “Why dost thou offer sacrifices unto the Lord?” He answered, “I know not, save the Lord commanded me.” (Moses 5:6.) There may be times when we are called upon to climb Mount Moriahs and to sacrifice our Isaacs without a full and prior explanation. Faith is the first principle of the gospel; it is a principle of progress.
SATAN IS HOT ON THE HEELS OF THE FULL TIME MISSIONARY (IN FACT, HE WAS EMPLOYING ME TONIGHT!) ALL LIES ABOUT MORMONISM.
I suspect that there are few who know better the reality of Satan and his henchmen than does the full-time missionary, for the missionary is exposed to the fiery darts of the adversary, which come whistling overhead as he or she labors in the front lines in our war against sin. However, I promise all missionaries—and all members—that if the nine actions just mentioned are followed consistently, victory will be yours and faith and testimony will be preserved.
At the same time—
THE REASON WE ARE OPPOSSED IS NOT BECAUSE OUR DOCTRINES ARE PREPOSTEROUS, AND THE BOOK OF MORMON IS A FAIRY TALE, IT IS BECAUSE WE ARE THE CHOSEN DIVINE. THAT'S WHY SATAN SPENDS ALL HIS ENERGIES TRYING TO PERSUADE US THE MORMON RELIGION ISN'T "PURE, TRUTHY RELIGION."
1. I assure you that opposition to our cause testifies of its divinity. Would satanic powers combine against us if we were not posing a threat to such powers?
2. I assure you that opposition, if met and overcome, has a refining influence upon our lives. A verse in one of our hymns reads:
When through fiery trials thy pathway shall lie,
My grace, all sufficient, shall be thy supply.
The flame shall not hurt thee; I only design
Thy dross to consume and thy gold to refine.
(“How Firm a Foundation,” Hymns, no. 66.)
The Savior learned obedience by the things which he suffered. (See Heb. 5:8.) Joseph Smith’s oppositions gave him experience and worked for his good. (See D&C 122:7.)
3. I assure you that the waters in which we are wont to swim are but little puddles when compared with the deep rivers of opposition in which the Prophet Joseph and others swam. (See D&C 127:2.)
4. I assure you that our cause is just and it will succeed, regardless of the opposition exerted against us. Earlier Saints were bolstered by these words: “As well might man stretch forth his puny arm to stop the Missouri river in its decreed course, or to turn it up stream, as to hinder the Almighty from pouring down knowledge from heaven upon the heads of the Latter-day Saints.” (D&C 121:33.)
President Brigham Young said: “Every time you kick ‘Mormonism’ you kick it upstairs; you never kick it downstairs. The Lord Almighty so orders it.” (Discourses of Brigham Young, sel. John A. Widtsoe, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1941, p. 351.)
IF YOU ARE WAVERING, GET BACK IN THE MORMON BUBBLE QUICK!
With all my heart I implore those who are walking on the fringes of our faith to seek the safety of the center. This can be done best by counseling with your leaders and remaining within the fellowshipping circle of the Saints, and receiving nourishment from the good word of God. Do not permit faithless people to turn you out of the right way or to put you out of existence. (See Moro. 6.)
And I pray for those who deal in the highest form of larceny—that of stripping people of their precious testimonies. Such action, if continued, will lead only to the futility and emptiness of the dream of a night vision. (See 2 Ne. 27:3; Acts 5:33–39.)
God help us all in our war against sin. Though our numbers may be few and our dominions small, may we go forward “armed with righteousness and with the power of God in great glory” (1 Ne. 14:14), is my prayer in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.
^ Back to top
Liahona » 2001 » July
The Miracle of Faith
President Gordon B. Hinckley
As it was then, so it is today. This precious and marvelous gift of faith, this gift from God our Eternal Father, is still the strength of this work and the quiet vibrancy of its message. Faith underlies it all. Faith is the substance of it all. Whether it be going into the mission field, living the Word of Wisdom, paying one’s tithing, it is all the same. It is the faith within us that is evidenced in all we do.
CRITICS ATTACK US BECAUSE WE ARE SO TRUE AND THEY ARE SO BLIND AND MISLED. BY SATAN. JESUS' SPIRIT BROTHER::
Our critics cannot understand it. Because they do not understand, they attack. A quiet inquiry, an anxious desire to grasp the principle behind the result, could bring greater understanding and appreciation.
I was asked at a news conference on one occasion how we get men to leave their vocations, to leave home, and serve the Church.
I responded that we simply ask them, and we know what their answer will be.
What a marvelous and wonderful thing it is, this powerful conviction that says the Church is true. It is God’s holy work. He overrules in the things of His kingdom and in the lives of His sons and daughters. This is the reason for the growth of the Church. The strength of this cause and kingdom is not found in its temporal assets, impressive as they may be. It is found in the hearts of its people. That is why it is successful. That is why it is strong and growing. That is why it is able to accomplish the wonderful things that it does. It all comes of the gift of faith, bestowed by the Almighty upon His children who doubt not and fear not, but go forward.
Bruce R. McConkie, “Once or Twice in a Thousand Years,” Ensign, Apr 2005, 54–59
But great things do not come easily; events that shake the earth run into mountains of resistance. There is an opposition in all things; every person who seeks to find the true Church runs counter to the ways of the world. Joseph Smith was no exception.
SATAN TRIED TO MURDER JOSEPH!
As he prayed, the powers of evil fought back with satanic terror. “I was seized upon by some power which entirely overcame me,” he said, “and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction” [JS—H 1:15].
SATAN IS 100% FOCUSED ON DECIMATING THE "TRUE CHURCH"
Such are the ways of Satan that when the God of heaven seeks to send the greatest light of the ages into the world, the forces of evil oppose it with the deepest darkness and iniquity of their benighted realm. Lucifer, our common enemy, fought the promised Restoration as he now fights the accomplished Restoration.......
Liahona » 2005 » May
Be Thou an Example
DO NOT DOUBT. CAST IT OUT!!
Remember, faith and doubt cannot exist in the mind at the same time, for one will dispel the other. Cast out doubt. Cultivate faith. Strive always to retain that childlike faith which can move mountains and bring heaven closer to heart and home -
smellsgood
Bruce R. McConkie, “Once or Twice in a Thousand Years,” Ensign, Apr 2005, 54–59
Now, I did this little taking out the identifying words awhile back, sorry, I don't wanna go through and sort it all out, but the key is at the bottom. Read the quotes carefully from the highly venerated Bruce R. McConkie, and see if you could replace the ** with JW terms.
*R*....
IF YOU APOSTASIZE FROM THE CHURCH, YOU LOSE SALVATION. SALVATION IS THROUGH THE CHURCH.
If persons separate themselves from the Lord’s church, they thereby separate themselves from his means of salvation, for salvation is through the Church."
APOSTATES WILL BE CUT OFF FROM SALVATION.
"There is one verse particularly in that section which they fail to consider. It is especially pertinent. It says that apostates and others who have been cut off from the Church will not be found among the Saints of the Most High at the last day. Why? Because salvation is in the Church, not elsewhere."
WHY DO PEOPLE APOSTASIZE FROM MORMONISM? IS THERE ANY NOBLE, PERHAPS EVEN A GOOD, REASON TO DO SO? NO! IT IS BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T WANT TO PUT IN THE WORK FOR ZION'S SHIP!
"*AA* was very expressive in describing the fate of apostates when he said:
“Why do people apostatize? You know we are on the ‘Old Ship Zion.’ We are in the midst of the ocean. A storm comes on, and, as sailors say, she labors very hard. ‘I am not going to stay here,’ says one; ‘I don’t believe this is the “Ship Zion.” ’ ‘But we are in the midst of the ocean.’ ‘I don’t care, I am not going to stay here.’ Off goes the coat, and he jumps overboard. Will he not be drowned? Yes. So with those who leave this Church. It is the ‘Old Ship Zion.’ Let us stay in it.”
And then he added: “If the candle of the Almighty does not shine from this place, you need not seek for its light anywhere else.”
IF YOU QUESTION THE PRESIDENT, APOSTASY HAS MANIFESTED AND YOU'RE ON YOUR WAY TO HELL.
“Whenever there is a disposition manifested in any of the members of the Church to question the right of the *AB*____________of the whole Church to direct in all things, you see manifested evidences of apostasy—of a spirit which, if encouraged, will lead to a separation from the Church and to final destruction; wherever there is a disposition to operate against any legally appointed officer of this Kingdom, no matter in what capacity he is called to act, if persisted in, it will be followed by the same results.” So spoke *AC*______________________________"
"What is so precious as salvation? And how is it to be obtained? Only through the Church and “being anxiously engaged” in its program.
There is no other way."
A.Bruce R. McConkie, “Once or Twice in a Thousand Years,” Ensign, Apr 2005, 54–59
B. 1820, [was] like the 1,400 years which preceded it. …
C. Eighteen twenty
D.young Joseph
E.Joseph Smith
F.he
G. “I was seized upon by some power which entirely overcame me,” he said, “and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction” [JS—H 1:15].
H.My
I.our young supplicant says
J. I
K.did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages
L.and the Personage who addressed me said
M.By President Boyd K. Packer
Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
N.The Prophet Joseph Smith said he
O.a celestial law
P.Temples
Q. the latter day saints
R.At the Logan Temple cornerstone dedication, President George Q. Cannon made this statement:
“Every foundation stone that is laid for a Temple, and every Temple completed according to the order the Lord has revealed for his holy Priesthood, lessens the power of Satan on the earth, and increases the power of God and Godliness, moves the heavens in mighty power in our behalf, invokes and calls down upon us the blessings of the Eternal Gods, and those who reside in their presence” (Millennial Star, 12 Nov. 1877, p. 743).
S.sacred ordinance work of the temples
T.Mark E. Petersen, “Salvation Comes through the Church,” Ensign, Jul 1973, 108
Image
U.(See D&C 68:4.)
V.crucify
W.excommunication
X.section 85 of the Doctrine and Covenants.
Y. “And they who are of the High Priesthood, whose names are not found written in the book of the law, or as well as the lesser priesthood
Z.(D&C 85:11.)
AA.President Brigham Young
AB.President
AC.President Brigham Young. (Discourses of Brigham Young [Deseret Book Co., 1943], pp. 82–83, 85.)
AD.
The Lord says further in this same section of the Doctrine & Covenants: “… all they who are not found written in the book of remembrance shall find none inheritance in that day, but they shall be cut asunder, and their portion shall be appointed them among unbelievers, where are wailing and gnashing of teeth.” (D&C 85:9.)
AE. priesthood and temple blessings
AF.(See D&C 76:79.) -
Double Edge
geez.... that "axe" you have to grind against mormons must be huge.....those quotes you found must have taken a big part out of your day..... there really are other things going on in life.....let the hatred go, you'll feel better.
-
smellsgood
"geez.... that "axe" you have to grind against mormons must be huge.....those quotes you found must have taken a big part out of your day..... there really are other things going on in life.....let the hatred go, you'll feel better."
I've never been a Mormon, don't have any hatred toward them, and was looking into their history in hopes of helping JW's see patterns of their religion in others. I like to be informed you know, Mormonism is very interesting... Trust me, it took longer than a day, I wasn't expecting to talk to Mormons it just happened,,,, but luckily quotes like that are ample.
And what about the websites that have all the WT quotes? Why don't you go tell them they have a huge axe to grind and are wasting their time. It's better that people remain lied to by cults, don't you think? -
smellsgood
Double Edge, I have to say your comment really frustrated and upset me. It's not like my days and nights are consumed with Mormonism, hardly. I don't think you would make the same comment, or have, of people who have listed quotes of the WT on this site, nor would you say the same thing if I had been talking to JW's about their cult. Maybe you would. Then you might have to comment about alot of other people in the same way. Would you pass up the opportunity to anti-Witness to a deluded proseltyzing individual?
My motivation has nothing at all to do with hatred. Of course, since you don't know me, you wouldn't know that. However, maybe it is time to quit investing any energy into learning about cults. Maybe it isn't worth ANY of my time?