by Ancientofdays 23 Replies latest jw experiences
I would ask him a question and tell him to think about it before answering me. I would tell him that as a parent all I want is his happiness and to please be honest with me so I can help to make him happy. Then I would ask:
Do you feel like you want to be a publisher because YOU really want to or merely because you think it is the right thing to do or because you want to please mommy and the congregation?
This is very similar to a decision to start smoking. I think now is a good time to discuss the cost versus the benefits, objectively, of becoming a publisher. First, the cost. Tell them honestly what they will be expected to give up to make time for field circus. Remember, every hour they are out in service is an hour that they cannot be studying for school work or outside playing. This also means giving up vacation time, since the organization is extremely demanding and no amount of work ever seems to be enough. They will have to give up weekend activities. And they will be harassed toward baptism, which means they will have to obey all the rules.
As for the benefits, they are all illusions. I think just about every apostate Web site will tell you that 1914 was a scam, as is the imminence of Armageddon. Once you go out there, they keep Armageddon in front of you to make you think the minute you walk out, you are going to die. And then, discuss what life would be like if they had to spend the whole time just doing what someone else tells them, all the time, forever. That is what life will be like in the "new" order. There will be no initiatives taken by people to do anything exciting, since they will all be doing what someone tells them to. Is that the life they want?
Instead of going off on them, I suggest taking this reasoning approach. People will do something if the perceived cost is less than the perceived benefit. The object is to make them see the true cost and the true benefit, and that they are lying about the true benefit. Life in that "new" order is nowhere as pleasant as they make it out to be, and there will be no freedom whatsoever. I hope, once they see that the costs are much higher than they think they will be and the benefits are all illusions, they will make the rational decision to not join in. Unlike the decisions that they showcase where a child declines seeing that movie or going to the prom, this is one decision that they will not regret. And, if even after watching all the apostate Web sites and reading Crisis of Conscience they do want to get baptized, that option will still be open. The prom--well, once that's gone,...
I know this day would have arrived , sooner or later.
I'm inactive from 1 year now, and I go to the meeting just sometime on the Sunday.
But my wife is in a very well standing , and the kids are following her at meeting and service field.Yesteray evening my wife told me that my 2 boys asked the elder to become publisher.
They are 13 and 10 age.The elder was very polite , and ask my wife to have my opinion regarding this.
I'm going to talk the oldest boy (not taking in consideration the 10 yrs old one).
I would like not to be so drastic and not offend him, but I have to start some point to tell him some truth regarding this organization .
Any suggestion ?
I would try and find out why they want to do this. Talk to them in private, away from mom or anybody. I'm speaking from experience because I was raised as a Witness. My dad was a Witness and my mom was not. Many, many, many times our answers about decisions regarding Kingdom Hall stuff to my mom or other people was given with the knowledge that my dad might find out what we said or the congregation might find out what we said. It is hard when you're a kid and you feel like you're being asked to chose one parent over the other. In my case, my brother and I always towed the JW line when answering questions, because we already knew our mom always loved us and wouldn't do anything bad to us if we did what my dad and the congregation wanted. On the other hand, if we went against my dad (and the congregation) we'd be shunned by everyone, including him, and that's just the beginning. Who knows what sort of terror my incredibly strict father would have unleashed on us! I bet hardly anybody in Iraq loved Saddam Hussein, but you hardly ever heard someone in Iraq speak out against him. Know why? He would have sent them on a sightseeing trip through a wood chipper if they spoke out against him! So, of course, in front of the cameras or the public, everybody LOVED uncle Saddam!!! Kinda the same thing with JW kids. They don't necessarily want to be Jehovah's Witnesses, but they definitely don't want to experience the consequences of telling a parent or the congregation that they don't want to be one.
So, whatever your kids decisions are, just try to understand. Just let them know that you are always there for them and that nothing they can do regarding the JWs would make you stop loving them. Right now, the gun barrel of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is leveled at their little heads, so don't hold anything against them. I bet one day they'll get older and they'll let their true colors (one way or the other) shine though, just as I did.
I would ask all the questions suggested but reassure him it is his decision and you will support him either way. As was stated before by another poster..if you push too hard teens have a way of pushing back. So just let him know you will support him either way.
10 and 13? It's already too late. They're already indoctrinated and brainwashed.
(That is, if they've been in it since birth.)
At least if they get baptized and later want out of the borg, they will know their
father won't shun them. Maybe by then you will have planted enough seeds in
your wife's mind and she won't either.
Edited to add: By then there will probably be "new light" and shunning and/or
disfellowshipping may not even be practiced.
Have to remember that this step is only one along the way to getting baptized some day. It means little by itself, I take it that they already go out with your wife and others in the Ministry? The only difference will be that the Congo will take a report from them and they will be counted in the statistics, so it as much for the Cong. benefit as anybody's .
The Org book p82 says
It would be appropriate for the parent to approach one of the elders on the Congregation Service Committee to discuss whether the child is qualified to become a publisher. The Presiding Overseer will arrange two elders (one being a member of the Service Committee meet with the child and his parents. If the child has a basic knowlege of Bible truth and gives evidence of wanting to share in Kingdom Service, this would indicate that good progress had been made. After considering these and other factors similar to those that apply to adults, the two elders can determine whether the child may be recognized as an unbaptized publisher.
If at a later date they commit something that seriously offends the congo, and are not baptized, the status of Unbaptized Publisher is taken away, but they are not treated as disfellowshipped
As to how to handle it? I guess the father will know better than I would.....Good Luck !
Yesteray evening my wife told me that my 2 boys asked the elder to become publisher.
They are 13 and 10 age.
It is absolutely imperative that you question your sons along the same lines that the earlier posters have suggested. Do you have any solid evidence that your 2 boys "asked the elder" anything at all? Even if they "asked", how can you be so sure their "request" was not under coercion? Becoming a publisher is serious business, a decision like that is best left to older individuals. As someone pointed out ... Jesus himself began his ministry as anadult. So if your sons wish to follow Christ's example, they should wait.
I speak as one who has no kids, so take it for what it is worth.
I would fight tooth and nail to keep my kids out of the WTS including any action that would DF me.
I would tell the kids why they shouldn't want to join the mind-control cult. I just wouldn't want to
ruin their childhood/life as others have. This might be too radical for you.
My feelings don't sit well with many faders. So I suppose that a compromise would be to say to
the wife and kids, "I want my kids to reach the age of consent fully before making these kind of
decisions. I don't want them to start progressing toward baptism until after they are 18. At that
age, they will just start to be ready to decide for themselves. Before that, they are doing what
someone tells them is right. If they want to be regular in the [recruiting] work and keep track of
their hours, I don't want them to feel an obligation to do so. They can go out if they want or not
go out [recruiting] if they don't want to. Therefore, they should not become publishers at this time."
Then make sure it is clear to Mom, the kids, the elders. NO NO NO.
Another (softer or wimpier) compromise would be to fully let them become publishers and force them
to be regular, telling them they are free to quit the work if they no longer want to be regular, but insisting
on no uncertain terms that they will not be baptized as minors. Tell them they have to have a meaningful
share in the [recruiting] work- meaning minimum 10 hours a month, doing something every week. Make
sure they know they can quit anytime, but can't skip service unless they quit.
Hi AncientofDays,
First let me tell you "where I am coming from." I was raised a JW and I left in my early 20s. I am now an atheist and will do anything in my power to ruin the Watchtower's control over people's lives, ESPECIALLY children.
Have you asked your boys WHY they want to do this? There are three possibilities, the way I see it:
A. They want to do this to please Mommy, thinking that their becoming publishers will elevate Mommy's "ranking" in the congregation to offset the "harm" that your inactivity has caused to her "ranking."
or
B. They really want to enter a career as colporteurs (book salesmen). All the glamor of vinyl siding, but with a lighter sales bag!
or
C. They have become convinced that they must BUY THEIR SALVATION by "deeds." No impressionable child wants to have his eyes rot out of his head and his tongue rot out of his mouth at Armageddon, and if dragging his butt from door-to-door is the approved means of escaping such a fate, well, where do I sign up?
You need to explain to your kids that God does not require a properly filled out field service report - especially not from youths as young as they are, and that you and Mommy will protect them from MEN who want to throw them into the fiery furnace. They need to be told that they don't have to worry about this until they are 16 or 17 or 18 years old, and that their job now is to have a delightful and memorable childhood.
Then work like heck to GIVE them that delightful and memorable childhood by SPENDING TIME WITH THEM while Mommy drags herself from door-to-door. Always give Mommy the option of "taking the day off" and joining you on your visits to the park and other amusements.
Fortunately, any normal kid has plenty of positive self-interest and will not be so willing to give up SELF for a book publishing company that lyingly promises salvation on the next doorstep.
GOOD LUCK!
I am not sure how much you can say, due to whether or not you are trying to fade, or are a known non believer, so you may need to be more discreet than I suggest. It would be good to encourage him to put off becoming a publisher until he has a few discussions with you to prove to you he is ready. (Even if he does become a publisher, it is not the end of the road, the sanctions if he stops putting in reports later is not the same as if he was to get d/f)
Around 12 children can start to become spiritually aware. However, they luckily also are very inquisitive, and not yet totally indoctrinated. Feed their inquisitive natures, and ask them lots of questions to teach them how to reason on things.
My daughter was 12 when I was being d/f. She had good friends at school who were worldly, so I started to ask her how she felt about Jehovah going to kill them. Why did they deserve it? Why were they were not Jehovah's Witnesses? Why was she a JW? She very quickly put 2 and 2 togehter and realised that people are generally the relgion they were born into. She also could see there was not logic in a God wanting to kill anyone not a JW.
After that she was receptive to other information. So I would tell her about the history of the JWs. I asked her if she knew who started the JWs? Here answer was "no one, they always existed" She was blown away when I said that actually the WTS was started by Pastor Russell. She thought it was such a joke that he called himself a Pastor, and that he made up his beliefs from all sorts of places - that there was not a line of JWs always believing the same.
Maybe then try to get a hold of Studies in the Scriptures, particularly Thy Kingdom Come and discuss some of the history. Show how they used to say the world was going to end in 1914 and that it did not come true. Also show how the Pyramids were used to predict 1914. If they like history they will find it intriguing, and make the religion look like a joke.
A word of warning, it needs to be done in small doses and at the right time. Occasionally my daughter lapped up the information with great interest. At other times she would get really irritated at my obsession with it all.
