An elder once told me that to make a trinitarian stop believing in the trinity doctrine is almost like walking against an escalator. He said it is next to impossible to change their way of thinking no matter what scriptures you show them. It seems that they are "Jesus" franatics and what ever scripture they show you trying to prove Jesus is God they totally do a backpedal when a scripture applying to another that can prove Godship is always disregarded. When you show a trinitarian Exodus 7:1 and asked them is Moses a true god or false god I have had trinitarians actually say that Moses is a "false" god instead of admitting that men and angels were call "gods" without it distracting from Jehovah's Godship.
Do you know any staunch "Trinitarians" that quit believing in the Trinity?
Jonathan Swift once wrote: "It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into." Nobody believes in the Trinity because a rational examination of the available evidence leads them to that belief. Instead, they choose to believe it and therefore, unless they choose to stop believing it, arguing with them is an uphill struggle. (The same of course is largely true of JWs)
I find that 99.9% of the time, non-trinitarians have no idea what the trinity is and therefore they have a poor argument against it.
It is like if you were going to try to convince me that my dog is not a dog and you didn't even know what a dog was. You would say "But it can't be a dog because it doesn't have feathers!"
Staunch non-Trinitarians are the same.
All conditioned minds react in accordance the conditioning they have had - it feels good to think we are superior to the ignorant.
Staunch is the wild card word. I have known Catlicks and Baptist that became witnoids.
But they werent the pope or Jerry Fallwell.
My feelings on your comment are that the bible being a book of confusion and contradictions supports both views.
Just like the stance on you are saved by your faith.
Vs. Faith without works is dead.
People pick and choose and see what they want to see.
So never decide to go to hell. Always think you are going to a good place.
Nobody believes in the Trinity because a rational examination of the available evidence leads them to that belief
I would have to respectfully differ with that opinion. A rational examination of the Scriptures has led me to that belief. The JWs grossly misrepresent the Trinity doctrine as well as twisting their Bible every which way to make it NOT teach the Trinity doctrine. Many an hour I had spent arguing with "Trinitarians" - never thought I would be on their side one day. Titus 2:13 is my latest find - " 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ," If you want to find some convoluted presentation of non-facts, check out the NWT appendix on that.
How about John 1:1,3 -
" 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."
So, does it say "through him all things were made, without him nothing has been made that had been made EXCEPT JESUS?" No - it does not.
This is just a smattering of proof that Jesus is God. Maybe it isn't so much that they are fanatics, but that they recognize a truth when they see it.....
Not to support the JWs but Biblically the Trinity has precious little going for it. The crux of the matter on the other hand is that the Trinity seeks to solve the pesky problem of having apparently two Gods, God the son as well as God the Father. Christians were in danger of getting accused of believing in two Gods.
The Trinity was a clumsy attempt to resolve that problem.
For what it's worth the Trinity doctrine comes out of what can only be properly called 'biblicial contraditions' and various textual problems.
Those who reject much of the 'Trinitarian' model turn a very blind eye to these Biblicial contradictions and textual problems. On the other hand Trinitarians will routinely read into a number of differant texts and take away much more than is really there because they see everything in terms of Trinitarian philosophy.
There may well be some contradictions or perhaps more likely apparent contradictions but the overwhelming weight of the New Testament is very much opposed to the Trinity formulation as is the overall picture of things eg Jesus had to pay a price to get a top status, that clearly doesn't apply to God who already owns everything.
I didn't believe the trinity when I was a JW.
I was taught that it has pagan origins and that it is unreasonable for anyone to believe that Jesus is God.