Did God kill Adam & Eve?

by return visitor 28 Replies latest jw friends

  • sweetface2233
    he gave them life & everything they needed to sustain it and all he asked for in return was their obedience but they couldn't even do that

    Did Adam and Eve ask to be created? Did Adam and Eve choose to enter into an agreement stating that if they were given "life to time indefinite" then they agree to worship and show obeisance to God? From my study and discussions of the Bible, the answer to both of these questions in a big fat NEGATIVE. I find it very arrogant of God to create an entire universe for the sole purpose of praising his name.

  • lfcviking
    i gave my son life, can i judge him anyway I chose to? Can I condemn him to death?

    No you have no right to because you are not the law giver, whereas God is.

  • lfcviking

    Thanks for your discussion chaps, nice to hear your viewpoints on this. But we'll just have to agree to disagree.

    Nighty night.

  • bebu
    if I put a gun on my childs dresser and told him not to touch it, would I be a good parent?

    I don't know. My son enjoys keeping a rifle under his bed. *

    I don't think A&E were childish in this story at all, so I don't think this is a very accurate analogy. The story is not about ignorant children in danger, but about adults who decided to choose outside of God's will. They got more than they bargained for, obviously. But that would still not be God's fault.



  • AGuest

    thank you, and may you all have peace!

    Given some of the comments here, I could pass this particular topic by, but I would not be able to look myself in the mirror if I did. One very dear to me is being wrong attacked and falsely accused by people who not only do not know Him, but do not know the facts of the situation. I would be a poor, poor soul if I were to remain silent.

    Many of you are in extreme error here. True, it is not entirely your fault, as have you been misled as to what actually occurred and why, but you bear some responsibility for not questioning those who have lied to you. So that you might have a reason to question what you have been told… and what you believe… both of which are in error… I must set the record straight.

    Contrary to what most of you have been taught by “religion” as to how the account should be transliterated, the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, did not threaten Adam and Eve with death for eating of the Tree of Knowledge. He did not say, “Do not eat from it or I will kill you,” nor did He imply anything of the sort. He said, “Do not eat from it for the day that eat from it… you will die.” So what’s the difference? The difference is that He issued a WARNING… not a command.

    And why did He even need to give a warning? Unfortunately, you have been misled as to what the Tree was… and represented. There were two Trees particularly mentioned in the account: the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge… of Good AND Bad. For millennia, those who claim to know have explained both of these as literal trees, wooden objects needing H2O, with leaves dependent on sun, and which give off carbon dioxide. This is a lie, and we know this because both trees were in the Garden, versus “outside” in the earth which was later cursed.

    What were these Trees? The first, the Tree of Life… is none other than the Holy One of Israel, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, Son and Christ of the Most Holy One of Israel, whose name is JAH of Armies. He is the True Vine… Sprout… the Tree… whose “leaves”… his flesh… are the “curing” of the nations. If one “eats” from him… one shall live forever. True, one’s flesh might die, but one’s spirit will live on: it will be given a “white outer garment”… i.e., a SPIRIT body… which does not die (spirits do not die; they must be destroyed and can only be destroyed by fire).

    The second Tree… that of the Knowledge of Good and Bad… the one Adam and Eve were warned from… was the means by which they would know good… or life… AND bad… or death. Life is good… and good… is life. The only thing that is “bad”… in all existence… is Death. (For those who would argue that there are other things, I would say to you that all other things are reparable; death is not… yet. And death includes such things as sickness, aging, pain, etc., all of which are the symptoms of death operating in us, and so are included in what is “bad”… or death.)

    Our Adversary intimated to Eve that by warning them against eating from the second Tree, God was withholding from them knowledge of something. Knowledge of what? Knowledge of “bad”… something God had knowledge of. And it is true: He was. He did not want them to know bad… death. Why would He? He wanted that they only know life, which they were very familiar with. Eve, however, ate, because she was tricked into thinking that if she did, she would not die.

    Adam, however, knew very well that if he ate he would die. He KNEW this! But that is what he wanted: to die… to know “bad.” Why? Because (1) he would become like God… knowing good… life… AND bad… death. Problem was, while it was true that God knew death, Death had no hold on Him. He, the One who had the KEYS to death and Hades, which keys He since gave to His Son, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, cannot be held by death, for Death is subject to Him. This was NOT the case for Adam, however, and a very critical detail that he overlooked when he ate. You see, Adam ate with the thought that yes, he would come to know death and so be like God, but since he would be “like” God death would not be able to HOLD him. He thought that once he became like God, he would also be able to “conquer” death, like God. He didn’t factor in that death would become master over him!

    But the Adversary did not say, “… your eyes will be opened and you are bound to be like God… able to conquer death.” He said, “… your eyes will be opened and you are bound to be like God… knowing good and bad.” That was it; there was nothing else, no ability to overcome death.

    God, then, did not kill Adam; Adam CHOSE to die… because he thought that if he ate he would become like God… and have authority over death… versus death reigning as master over him! He was wrong. But he wasn’t only wrong with regard to himself: when Adam ate… and as a result became a subject of death, enslaved by death… all that was Adam… including his progeny… also became subject to death. Down to this day.

    God did not kill Adam. In truth, God did NOT want Adam and Eve to die and so warned them against taking in the very thing that would bring death to them. Death entered the world through them… through their desire to “know” something they truly shouldn’t have wished to.

    Some will ask, well, if Adam was “perfect” why didn’t he choose NOT to eat? Isn’t it God’s fault that Adam ate, because it was God who created Adam with whatever flaw caused him to eat? The answer to that is very simple: it is the very fact that Adam WAS perfect that God allowed him to have a choice. It is the imperfect that need to be told what to think, where to place their feet. It is the imperfect who are “faulty,” in flesh and in thought. The perfect… are given free will… to exercise perfectly. If they CHOOSE not to do so… the blame lies with them. Because they could just as easily have chosen differently.

    God did not kill Adam. Adam… killed Adam. And us. He wanted to die. He wanted to know “bad”… death. And he did what he needed to do to accomplish that, including selling his progeny to death.

    To this, some will ask, well, why didn’t God reverse it? If God is love… why didn’t He just undo what Adam did? Inexperienced ones, God DID reverse it! He sent His only-begotten son [by “Sarah”] as a sacrifice… to pay the price… the wage… that death demands. So that, by means of HIS life… his BLOOD… we can ALL live… if only we CHOOSE to. All WE need do is what Adam was restricted from doing: eat… from the Tree of Life… whose “leaves” are for CURING the “curse” that is death.

    And why wasn’t Adam allowed to get back to the Tree and eat? Because he… the one who wanted so much to be “like God,” that he compromised not only his own life but that of ALL who came from him… would then be able to live… FOREVER. And NOT die. So what? So, Adam had already shown not only a lack of humility but extreme ambition! He ate because he wanted to be like God, even able to conquer death! If he wasn’t satisfied with his place before eating, why in the world should we conclude he would have been content with it once he became “like God”?! To whom would he be subject then? No one! And who could stop him then? If he had NO problem selling ALL of his progeny into death, should we really think that he would have turned out to be a compassionate being? Did not his actions show what kind of heart he truly had?

    So, should God have allowed him back to eat? Of course, not! At least, not at that time. Whether God has since allowed him to eat… or will again… is between Adam and God. There will be a resurrection… of the righteous AND the unrighteous… and God shows mercy to whomever He wishes to show it. But in the meantime, while it is true that a man should treat ALL in his household with love and respect, he cannot allow the house to be overrun by his children! A man gives his house and belongings to his sons… by means of inheritance. He does not stand idly by and let them take it by usurpation or mutiny! Not if he loves and respects the OTHERS in the household… whom he is BOUND to protect from ALL enemies, including members of his own household!

    As a slave to the Son of the Most Holy One of Israel, I would be less than good-for-nothing if I stood by and let you continue to believe the lie. Thus, I have spoken the truth to you here. You have been misled and you are placing blame in error. If it were your father, and I posted some outlandish account here for all to see, based on some wicked rumor perpetuated by those who don’t know your father you, too, would speak up so as to set the record straight. That is my intent. Whether you hear or refrain.

    Again, I bid you peace and ears to hear the TRUTH… versus the lie… if you so wish it.

    A slave of Christ, and through him, to the Most Holy One of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, whose name is JAH… of Armies… and to whom I say “Abba, Father!”


  • choosing life
    choosing life

    The Bible says that Satan is the one who has the means to cause death, not Adam and not God. If God allowed Satan (infinately more experienced than Adam or Eve) to trick Eve and tempt Adam to disobey, it was not a fair situation.

    Some of the apocrophyl books fill in the gaps left in the book of Genesis and other parts of the Bible. In the end, though, much remains hidden from our understanding.

    I find it hard to take Genesis in a total literal understanding.

  • LtCmd.Lore
    If God gave life then surely he has the right to take it away?......

    Absolutely NOT!

    Does a parent have the right to murder their child? No! They get arrested, and spend years in jail just like any other murder.

    As far as I know, there are no laws on the books stating that murder is somehow less wrong if it's committed by the parent.

    "I hereby sentence you to 20 years in jail!"

    "But your honor, he's my son... And I specifically told him that he could eat anything out of the fridge he wanted, except the ring balogna. I was gonna have that for a snack."

    "Oh, well in that case we're good. And here I thought it was a NORMAL homicide. Case dismissed."

    Being powerfull enough to do something doesn't meen you have the right.

    He might THINK he has the right, but he doesn't. He's just an all-powerful bully.


  • return visitor
    return visitor


    you maked my point for me.

    And why wasn’t Adam allowed to get back to the Tree and eat? Because he… the one who wanted so much to be “like God,” that he compromised not only his own life but that of ALL who came from him… would then be able to live… FOREVER.

    God didn't allow Adam to eat from the tree and live forever. If I withheld something necessary for my child to live I would be considered a murderer. You say that God was right to do it but you don't say that he didn't do it.

    Most killers justify their actions. Think of all of the wars and how killing the enemy is justified.

    My point is this, if God did not intervene after Adam ate from the tree of good and bad then Adam could have lived forever, the bible says so and God can not lie.

  • AGuest

    May you have peace!

    The Bible says that Satan is the one who has the means to cause death, not Adam and not God. If God allowed Satan (infinitely more experienced than Adam or Eve) to trick Eve and tempt Adam to disobey, it was not a fair situation.

    I would have to disagree with you, dear CL, first because of the mistransliteraion of the verse you quote which, in Greek, says that Satan has "the power" to cause death. Having the means... and having the power... are not the same thing. You have been misled. Second, the Most Holy One of Israel did not “allow” Satan to do anything of the sort. Adam, Eve… and Satan… were all enticed by their own desires, not Gods:

    “When under trial, let no one say: ‘I am being tried by God.’ For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone. But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death.” James 1:13-15
    It was Satan’s own desires that led him to sin:

    “In Eden, the garden of God, you proved to be. Every precious stone was your covering, ruby, topaz and jasper; chrysolite, onyx and jade; sapphire, turquoise and emerald; and of gold was the workmanship of your settings and your sockets in you. In the day of your being created they were made ready. You are the anointed cherub that is covering, and I have set you. On the holy mountain of God you proved to be. In the midst of fiery stones you walked about. You were faultless in your ways from the day of your being created until unrighteousness was found… in you. Because of the abundance of your sale goods they filled the midst of you with violence and you began to sin. And I shall put you as profane of the mountain of God, and I shall destroy you, O cherub that is covering, from the midst of the fiery stones. Your heart became haughty because of your beauty. You brought your wisdom to ruin on account of your beaming splendor. Onto the earth I shall throw you…” Ezekiel 28:13-17
    And because of HIS own desires, he exploited desires he saw in Adam and Eve, Adam, to “be like God, knowing good and bad,” and Eve, to eat what she desired, although she had been warned not to eat:

    “For God knows that in the very day of your eating from it your eyes are bound to be opened and you are bound to be like God, knowing good and bad. “Consequently, the woman saw that the tree was good for food and that it was something to be longed for to the eyes, yes, the tree was desirable to look upon. So she began taking of its fruit and eating it.”Genesis 3:5, 6

    But it was Adam and Eve who allowed it, not God. How? By not guarding their hearts but instead giving Satan power over them. You see, while it is true that the NWT version states that Satan is the one with the “’means’ to cause death,” the true Greek rendering is that he had “the power to cause death.” And this is true: Satan has whatever power God… or we… give him. We know that God never gave him the power to cause us death:

    “Look! Everything that he has is in your hand. Only against him himself do NOT thrust out your hand!” and “There he is in your hand. Only watch out for his soul itself!”Job 1:12; 2:6

    Like Adam, however, we often give Satan such power over us! How? By letting him exploit our own desires to the point that we do what Eve did: allow the desire to become fertile and give birth to sin. And the “wage” that sin pays... is death. It is when we OPPOSE him, however, that he has no power over us. Unfortunately, we more often than not succumb to his power, rather than oppose him, which is why we need a redeemer. You see, even though Adam initially “sold” us into death, we continually “sell” ourselves into sin… and thus death… too! There is One, however, who’s blood can “atone” for our sins… and thus repurchase us from death. That One, the one to whom ALL “authority,” has been given… in heaven AND on earth… is the One with the means to cause death (i.e., let Death “feed”), as well as undo it:

    “And I saw a star that had fallen from heaven to the earth, and the key of the pit of the abyss was given him.”Revelation 9:1

    “They have over them a king, the angel of the abyss. In Hebrew his name is Avaddohn, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon” (Destroyer).Revelation 9:11
    “Neither be murmurers, just as some of them murmured, only to perish by the Destroyer.”1 Corinthians 10:10
    “By faith he had celebrated the Passover and the splashing of the blood that the Destroyer might not touch their firstborn ones.”Hebrews 11:28
    “… and I have the keys of death and of Hades.”Revelation 1:18

    “For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the Destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite [you].”Exodus 12:23
    Having the means… and having the power… is not the same thing. Today, only God and Christ have the means for bringing about death, the Destroyer, whom they have “authority” over. But it was not always like this: because at one time he was equal to Christ, Adam, too, had the means:

    “That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death… through sin… and thus death spread to all men, because they had all sinned…”Romans 5:12

    “For if by the trespass of the one man death ruled as king, through that one…”Romans 5:17
    “For since death is through a man, resurrection of the dead is also through a man. For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.”1 Corinthians 15:21
    Which brings me to RV's comments:

    If I withheld something necessary for my child to live I would be considered a murderer.

    I must vehemently beg to differ, dear RV. First, even in our law “murder” is that which is premeditated or results from wanton disregard. So, yes, if you sat down and concocted a plan whereby your child needed something to live and your purposefully withheld it so as to cause that child’s death… you would be a murderer. Not just considered one. If, however, you withheld something from your child… to save someone else’s life… indeed, a ga-zillion someone elses, you would not be considered a murderer: even in this world, you would be considered a “hero.” I only need to point to the poor kids dying in Iraq and other wars to make that point: certain governments “withhold” the ability to return home… which is necessary for some of those folks to live. Yet, very few are crying “Murder!” Why? Because those folks CHOSE to go. They belong to the government they serve, and they serve at such government's whim.

    So, here, we have Adam… who CHOSE to know bad… death… chose to “go”. CHOSE to serve at death's whim. And, yet, God is being blamed. And, to add insult to injury, although God prevented Adam from continuing to live forever… for YOUR sake and mine… and the sakes of a ga-zillion others… rather than style Him a hero, you style Him a murderer. Truly it is just as it is written: we call what is good, bad… and what is bad, good.

    Earthling man. We think we know so much. Adam was willing to sell YOUR eternal life… indeed the eternal life of ALL mankind… for his own selfish desire. HE… didn’t give a HOOT about you… me… Eve… or anyone but himself. HE… was the “bad” father, husband, and son. Ad-ham.

    I find it remarkable… truly… that Adam did what he did and you and others have absolutely NO problem letting him off the hook and blaming God instead! Remarkable, but not surprising. For it is folks like you who would be among the first in the crowd, among the the ones to step over others to get to the front so as to be able to say to God, had he allowed Adam to eat and live forever, “Why did you let him eat?! “Why didn’t you avenge us right away and kill him immediately?! Why did you let him live at all?!”

    You have the matter turned around, dear RV and are among those who very often think themselves "wise," think they "see,"... to the point that they make false accusations based on their own desires... rather than on what is true. For your own sake, I exhort you to ask for eyes to see, particularly on this matter.

    Peace to you both.

    A slave of Christ,


Share this