Did God kill Adam & Eve?

by return visitor 28 Replies latest jw friends

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  bigdreaux

  But look at it from God's viewpoint he gave them life & everything they needed to sustain it and all he asked for in return was their obedience but they couldn't even do that.

  i understand that man. but, he made them with that flaw. if it wasn't in them to begin with, they never would have sinned. to me, it's like a computer programmer. he writes a program. then, when the computer does excately what it was programmed to do, he gets pissed off and smashes it. see what i mean? it makes no sense.

  and if you say, well, he was testing them. that is crazy to me. why do that? if you have a wife that you know loves you, do you put her love to the test by throwing obstacles at her? no, that is un-loving. why put them through all that?
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  bebu

  if you supposedly have the ability to save a life, and choose not to, i think that makes you a murderer. or at least an responsible for those deaths.

  So... were you one of those who were upset at Terry Schiavo being disconnected?

  Murder imo has the dimension of injustice, or disproportionate consequence. Often when I ground my eldest son, he accuses me (LOUDLY) of injustice and of the punishment not fitting the crime. Yet he seems to have accepted and internalized this style of justice because he will encourage me (LOUDLY) to ground his brother for the very same crimes, or less. I point this out to him, but self-justification (denial) is very strong.

  I think that disobedience to God is like deciding to pull the plug in a boat after you've been told not to, lest you sink. If you do it the boat will sink, but not necessarily in the next instant. There is time for repairing, lifejackets, or even changing boats while the leak slowly takes its course. The boat will sink, but you don't necessarily have to.

  Personally, I don't think God's responsible for the leak, even if he set up the physics which would allow a boat to sink.

  If there were no way to break with this fallen nature, then living forever would eventually be hell. (Like Harry Potter having a piece of Voldemort's soul live in him without chance of escape. ) Death, if transformed into an escape from living forever like that, would paradoxically be helping bring mercy.

  bebu
• 

  lfcviking

  it just means that god is a tyrant, "do has I say or die"

  Lets be fair it was not a dictatorship system he gave them a free will to do whatever they pleased, all he asked them to do was NOT eat from the Tree Of Knowledge. This was the only mention of the death penalty.

  Respectfully

  LFCv
• 

  zack

  The more I read and dwell on the Genesis story, the more I am I an convinced it is just a story.

  To the point of the thread, according to the story itself, God did not "murder" Adam and Eve. The serpent was the manslayer. Perhaps humans were meant to be more than the angels themselves. Maybe we are the higher creation and someone like Lucifer just couldn't stand it. The interpretations of the story I am sure are endless. What I think is simplistic and fantastic is the JW explanation of it.
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  bebu

  To the point of the thread, according to the story itself, God did not "murder" Adam and Eve. The serpent was the manslayer. Perhaps humans were meant to be more than the angels themselves. Maybe we are the higher creation and someone like Lucifer just couldn't stand it. The interpretations of the story I am sure are endless. What I think is simplistic and fantastic is the JW explanation of it.

  That was good said.

  bebu
• 

  lfcviking

  he made them with that flaw if it wasn't in them to begin with, they never would have sinned.

  It couldn't have been in them from the start because creating them with this 'flaw' would be pointless, because as you have shown with your computer programme illustration sooner or later they would sin. They sinned because they misused their free will, they had been given a freedom of choice, to obey or not to obey and they chose the latter.
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  bigdreaux

  but, that DESIRE to sin would HAVE to be in them. otherwise, it would have never happened.
• 

  return visitor

  Yes i see your point mate. But look at it from God's viewpoint he gave them life & everything they needed to sustain it and all he asked for in return was their obedience but they couldn't even do that.

  So surely God had a right to judge them in the way that he chose to.

  I gave my son life, can i judge him anyway I chose to? Can I condemn him to death?

  Think about this, if I put a gun on my childs dresser and told him not to touch it, would I be a good parent? No a loving father would not put it there to begin with. For all intent and purpose Adam and Eve were children (even though adult) inocent and inexperianced. If you believe the Genesis account I can't see how you say god is a loving father.
• 

  bigdreaux

  Think about this, if I put a gun on my childs dresser and told him not to touch it, would I be a good parent? No a loving father would not put it there to begin with. For all intent and purpose Adam and Eve were children (even though adult) inocent and inexperianced. If you believe the Genesis account I can't see how you say god is a loving father.

  my point excately.
• 

  lfcviking

  but, that DESIRE to sin would HAVE to be in them. otherwise, it would have never happened

  The desire to sin could not have been in them because they were created without sin, it was only when they ate from the tree in an act of disobedience that they became sinners because that was the FIRST sin. So sin could not have been present in them from the start.