Awakened,
I agree with what you said yet the question remains - if God is eternal, he must have either
a) set in motion the creation of the heavens and the earth immediately
b) or did it later. Why would God need "time" to think about and plan something he had the power to do instantly?
If any of you have watched Star Trek Deep Space 9, you know that the aliens inhabiting the "celestial wormhole" did not have a concept of linear time. There was no past, present or future - maybe this is God's time?
ETERNITY BEFORE CREATION.....THE NON-EXISTENCE.....of GOD!
by Terry 92 Replies latest watchtower bible
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truthseeker
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Terry
You don't have to DO in order to BE.
People with 'undiscovered' talents, skills and abilities - the artist who has the potential there within - but nobody sees their skill until they unleash it into reality on canvas...
Can we distinguish the air we breathe - nitrogen, oxygen etc from nothingness? Can't see it, touch it, taste it, smell it, can't hear it - but it's there and without it we die.
This is another case of potential versus actual.
Actuality has existence in that it demonstrates through being within a time continuum.
Potentiality has no demonstration at all. It does not "exist". What we place before our mind can have the potential to exist or not.
A talent for art is not a thing. It is a skillset which, when employed by action, produces an object.
A rock sitting on top of a hill is said to possess potential energy. When the balance is upset by an outside force the gravitational equilibrium produces movement downhill.
Can we distinguish the air we breathe from nothingness? Yes, just hold your breath and you'll demonstrate what the lack of it (nothing) can do!
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Terry
The assumption here is that believers in God haven't considered the premise of "BEFORE"
Frankly that's a bit patronising, very much a blanket statement and suggests that the concept of "ETERNITY" and perhaps more relevantly an "ETERNAL BEING" needs exploring by the author of the thread.
I say "suggests" because I don't know "Terry"
Events mark beginnings and endings to an observer. Without an observer and without events there is no ETERNAL.
I've found few "believers" who can evidence a rational thinking ability due to their umblical attachment to a largely semitic hodgepodge called the bible.
What I'm dealing in here is PRIMARIES. The underlying fundamental foundation which everything rests upon.
You refer to a PREMISE.
The whole of this thread is built around the premise of "BEFORE"
You don't say, however, what the object of the premise is. Without the object of the premise the word "before" is meaningless. Before CREATION.
You see, people think about God by employing mental representations before their mind which sketch in what this subject :God is and isn't.
Believers fail to consider the Primaries which the concept of God rests upon.
A Creator who has not created is a what? That is my focus; Deconstructing the God idea.
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truthseeker
Hi Terry, I totally agree with your point on Potential. It's nothing but the awareness that one is capable of doing something - potential doesn't exist!
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eclipse
Sad Emo, That is an interesting thought.
In taking that test on Nvr's thread It mentioned a non-interventionist god. A god that just lets us be, without intervention.
If I believed in god, that would be the best definition of the type of god I see. A non-existent one.
Through learning history, it makes sense to me that god is the product of our imaginations.
We couldn't explain the sky or the sun or the stars, we needed to have something bigger than ourselves to explain how we got there.
There was the birth of god.
It makes the most sense. Does it make it true? No. It is just a viewpoint.
Where did all the power of the stars originally come from? A powerful creator explains that nicely.
But where did he come from? Why did he wait in nothingness? Why isn't the universe eternal?
Another dimension like Awakened mentioned makes sense
because it would explain why our universe is relatively young (compared to eternity).
Perhaps god has been creating in multiple dimensions for eternity?
For god to just sit in nothingness seems illogical.
I do not think any creator would of just existed in nothingness unless it was unconscious or in a coma.
But that is a human state of being. So that would not make logical sense either.
It would make sense that he would be using his power to create for eternity.
Maybe when we evolve to use our entire brain, we will have a better understanding of our universe, and of other planes of existence if they exist.
Just thinking outloud.
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truthseeker
A Creator who has not created is a potential creator. :)
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Terry
Here is the mindblower. Here is the premise which must be faced. To not face this premise is to disconnect from rational thinking.
IF COMPLEXITY requires something yet more complex to produce it (i.e. the Universe requires God)
then,
Why doesn't the COMPLEXITY OF GOD require something also to produce God?
The buck stops with God in the believer's mind and he REFUSES to think about it beyond that. But, the implication of the premise hangs there in mid air like a fart in an elevator.
BEFORE GOD is not something any believer can hold in his mind. That is the failure of the God concept.
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truthseeker
Eclipse, I like your post, but one thing stood out... "Why did he wait in nothingness?" For God to wait implies that he was limited by the restraints of time. Assuming that God is eternal, then God exists in non-linear time where the past, present and future coexist. God would have begun his creative work immediately because there was no need to wait for a future time (post tense)
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worf
Terry,
"Man created God". I totally agree. And I like this topic you brought up.
This reminds me of the infinite-regression question of Who created existence? And who created the creator of existence? And who created the creator of the creator?, and on and on and on ..., ..., ...
While a jw I was never able to resolve that question in my mind. But my own personal opinion now is that existence simply exists and has always existed. For me no alternative is possible unless I were to accept the contradiction that at one time, existence did not exist. For me that is a contradiction.
Just my opinion. And thank you for starting this topic. It is very interesting to read various thoughts on this subject.
Worf
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Terry
A Creator who has not created is a potential creator. :)
And every child born in America is a potential President of the United States.
And every child born is also a potential serial killer.
And every child born is also a potential...well...you get the point.
A "potential" is not deuces wild, King's X, get out of jail free the way you are representing it.