Where do you go?

by jaguarbass 25 Replies latest jw friends

  • jaguarbass
    jaguarbass

    Where do you go with your thought process when you have lived long enough and researched enough to come to the conclusion that Jesus and the bible are a fraud? I wish that is not what I see. But having no vested interest but the search for truth and meaning in this life, and the availability of information in this day thats where I am.

    I guess some of you are atheist, some are agnostic. Agnostic is what I call myself today.

    I see and can argue for evidence of intelligent design, but jesus and the bible are the product of a bunch of old fat lazy men who never wanted to work.

    I can also accept that some do not want to see or argue for intelligent design. I respect that.

    So my ambiguous question is if you have come to the conclusion I have where do you go with your thoughts and your life.

    Here is a link for any who want to argue jesus is god.

    http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

  • Mum
    Mum

    Jesus said (or so I've heard) that the kingdom is within you. Go within.

    Regards,

    SandraC

  • ex-nj-jw
    ex-nj-jw

    I just try to accept it for what it is and enjoy the beautiful and remarkable things. I don't really care how it got here, it is and it will be until......................

    nj

  • Awakened07
    Awakened07

    Where do you go with your thought process when you have lived long enough and researched enough to come to the conclusion that Jesus and the bible are a fraud? I wish that is not what I see. But having no vested interest but the search for truth and meaning in this life, and the availability of information in this day thats where I am.

    I see and can argue for evidence of intelligent design, but jesus and the bible are the product of a bunch of old fat lazy men who never wanted to work.

    I can also accept that some do not want to see or argue for intelligent design. I respect that.

    So my ambiguous question is if you have come to the conclusion I have where do you go with your thoughts and your life.

    I looked to Intelligent Design for a while too, as it seemed like a good compromise, and I thought it had some good points. However, as I've researched it more, it turns out ID isn't much more than a smoothed over version of Creationism - where they've replaced Creator with Designer. Pretty much the same people are behind it too (of course, there are differences in various people's approach among the ID proponents as well, but this is true for a lot of them). I also learned that ID isn't a scientific approach - it's a group of people who wants to get ID into schools in the science classes, so as to more easily be able to preach about Jesus/God (that's the end goal).

    What ID proponents do, is to look at nature and say "That's so complex that I can't fathom how that can have got there by chance!". Not only is the premise wrong however - it is also comparable to a junior high school student looking at advanced calculus and saying "Well, heck - I don't understand even where to start with this! I refuse to believe this can be solved!" Just because we can't understand something, doesn't mean there isn't a solution. Another thing ID proponents do, is to not come up with new scientific material for peer review, but instead attack scientific theories wherever they can find a hole. And they continue to attack those same 'holes' even after scientists have answered them and explained them away.

    I could go on and on here, but instead, I'd like to recommend a YouTube video (there are in fact lots of great YouTube videos on the subject).

    It's very long I'm afraid, but should be right up your ally, and is totally worth it. Here's the URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsWAjvQSg

    The professor talking (Ken Miller) is actually a catholic, and I guess this is from a catholic university (?), so there's actually even a prayer at the start, but please look past that and watch the whole thing (goes to show you can combine these thoughts with faith, if you want).

    As for life from here, I've started to come to grips with not being special, and that this life is all there is. It's a rather glum and depressing thought at first (so much so that one can understand why religion had to be invented), but if it's true, we're just gonna have to face the facts: there are no cookies in the cabinet even though our father promised we would get them if we behaved. We can scrape that cabinet's inside until our nails bleed, but no cookie. It's depressing, it's "unfair", but it's a fact. However, I must confess I'm not 100% there yet. So I shouldn't sit here pretending to be a high priest of materialistic science(!). However - that's the direction I'm headed in. There are a couple of places you can still put God within the scientific frame if you want though. For instance before the Big Bang, and as the source of the very first forms of life.

    And if there is a loving God out there, I figure I haven't done anything to offend him so much that He must feel the need to crush me. And if He does anyway, I don't want to live forever in a place ruled by such a person. It's a matter of principle. A re-write of the old saying: "I wouldn't want to be a member of a paradise that doesn't want me as a member".

  • jaguarbass
    jaguarbass

    Hello Awakened, thanks for the youtube site, I bookmarked it and will watch it tomorrow, I have to get ready for work now.

    To me, I can see how proponents of intelligent design would promote jesus. But the Jesus myth is pretty much debunked with the least bit of research in this information age.

    There is no recorded contemporary history of the physical, literal, biblical Jesus. Unless they start concocting it. Everything in the bible is hearsay there are no eyewitness accounts.

  • flipper
    flipper

    Jaguarbass- Good question! I too am an agnostic, and I guess where I go for the meaning of life is in the little things I can find positive along the way and try to enjoy them as I go. A look and touch from my dear wife, a good relationship with my son sharing loving ,fun times, fishing, camping, the mountains, nature. Being out in the woods is one of the most spiritual experiences I know that draws me close to something in the sky or my reverance for whatever it is. I just look to making others happy and caring. Brings me happiness and contentment and helps others be positive. It's what my life is about

  • jaguarbass
    jaguarbass

    Thanks a lot Mr. Flipper. I see some of your family swiming around Tampa Bay all the time.

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    I struggled for years with the terms agnostic and atheist.

    I went to an atheist meeting to get some clear definition. One of the long-time members helped clear it up by telling me -- by the strictest definition everyone is agnostic. That is, nobody can prove or disprove the existence of a deity that may have originated the universe.

    The question that must be faced is, do you choose to live with belief in a God, or do you choose a different route? Some agnostics (i.e., some people) choose to believe for various reasons. Others choose not to . The latter people by definition are atheist.

    So you too may be atheist. Many really are, but don't call themselves that. The reason is that many people have a negative assessment of the word atheist, thinking godless equates to immoral hedonism or angry anti-Christianism. In many or most cases though, atheists are not anti-theist (actively preaching against the idea of God). They simply do not care to live their life in that paradigm. Many atheists like myself have some doubt about whether God exists, but simply choose not to rely on that because it seems like such a fantasy.

  • exwitless
    exwitless

    jaguarbass - I know where you're coming from. Here's a quote of my reply to a similar question on a thread about 6 weeks ago:

    I completely agree with your thoughts. A few months ago I posted something similar. When we DAd in Sept. of 2006, I was really confused about what to believe. Eventually, I came to the conclusion that I don't need to believe anything. I'm not athiest, christian, or any other title right now. I decided that whether "God" exists, whether creation vs. evolution occurred, whether there's a resurrection or heaven or hell or nothing when we die, I can't KNOW for a fact any of it. Since I can't KNOW it, I won't beat myself up about the possibility that I might believe something that is right or wrong. I plan to just live day to day, and now that I don't have to "wait on Jehovah" to make my life better, I can make choices and plan for the future with a more positive outlook. Good luck to you!

    I don't know if that makes sense to anyone else. For me, this is my way of not allowing myself to feel pressured into believing anything right now. I'm not sure if agnostic even describes me, because an agnostic is in a way searching for an answer, but isn't sure. I'm not searching for an answer. I don't want to research and study and think and meditate before I decide what I believe. I'm taking a very passive approach.

    To me, searching for answers to questions like whether or not god exists, or creation vs. evolution, or life after death is like trying to put a puzzle together without seeing what the picture is supposed to look like. Or better yet, it's like trying to put a puzzle together when you can't even be sure all the pieces ever existed.

  • Awakened07
    Awakened07

    Hello Awakened, thanks for the youtube site, I bookmarked it and will watch it tomorrow, I have to get ready for work now.

    - The video is a little dry the first half hour or so, but he touches on a few important points throughout the video that makes it worth it in the end, in my opinion. The talk ends at about the 69 minute mark, so if you're exhausted by then, you can stop it there, but there's a rather interesting Q&A session afterwords.

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