I dunno, erandir, I can't really imagine "attention to self" being hard to strike down for any ex-JW.
What do you think?
Well, Auld, since you put it that way......duh! I wish I would have thought of that! Thanks!
BirthdaysSimple Deconstruction of the JW Rationale
by AuldSoul 56 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
erandir
-
under_believer
The Society's quoting Origen on birthdays to back up their point is so damn dumb. All they're saying is: "Look, this guy read the Bible and came to the same conclusion we did." That in and of itself is invalid, since it's an empty appeal to authority and doesn't present any new evidence for the core claim.
It becomes even sillier when you realize that the Society would likely reject almost every single other one of Origen's beliefs about everything, to one degree or another. Origen believed in the Trinity; he believed demons could reconcile with and gain forgiveness from God; he believed that the faithful would rise to divinity after death and that human souls preexisted conception, among many other beliefs that would make any believing Witness shrink like a salted slug.
Their quoting of him is exactly like if George W. Bush proposed that all Americans should abstain from premarital sex; and then, when someone challenged him on it, he produced for proof a quote to the same effect from Osama bin Laden! -
AuldSoul
Listener,
As always, great contribution! I am greatly looking forward to our next phone chat. It seems you are still growing stronger in your convictions.
under_believer,
A pet peeve of mine is their willingness to selectively appeal to any authority that sort-of-kind-of doesn't utterly destroy their doctrine on a given issue. The selectivity proves itself out as soon as a nothing of a lowly sheep in the congregation tries to assert the same authority as their basis in an issue where the authority does utterly destroy their doctrine on a given issue.
Between the Bible and the Governing Body, the officially published stand is that the Bible is the all-trumping authority. However, in practice, the Bible is a poor stepchild next to the word of the Governing Body. Since even the Bible is subject to the selective interpretive prowess of the Governing Body, how could anyone be surprised that the early Church fathers would be similarly subject to these latecomer, would-be apostles of Christ?
Thank you for bringing that to the forefront so thoroughly.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul -
puck
i love that this was finished *on* my birthday. :)
-
under_believer
Happy birthday, puck!
-
Terry
ORIGEN: ( wikipedia)
His writings are important as one of the first intellectual attempts to describe Christianity . He espoused a Platonic view of eternal souls achieving perfection while escaping the temporary, imperfect material world. He imagined even demons being reunited with God. His views of a hierarchical structure in the Trinity, the temporality of matter, "the fabulous preexistence of souls," and "the monstrous restoration which follows from it" were declared anathema in the 6th century. [3]
In for a penny, in for a pound. I suppose the Watchtower finds this same Origen to be correct in these OTHER matters as well!
-
AuldSoul
Can anyone show the specific steps that would be taken by an elder (per directions) if some JW happened to decide to celebrate their birthday and it became known in the congregation?
Watchtower (October 15, 1998 p. 31 Questions From Readers)
Admittedly, true Christians today are not preoccupied with the roots and possible ancient religious connections of every practice or custom, but neither are they inclined to ignore pointed indications that do exist in God’s Word. This includes that the only birthday celebrations of Biblical record are of pagans and linked to instances of cruelty. Hence, the Scriptures clearly place birthday celebrations in a negative light, a fact that sincere Christians do not disregard.FYI, the highlighted portion is 100% conjecture in the case of Pharoah's birthday.
According to the narrative, both the cupbearer and baker were imprisoned for sinning against Pharoah. If the death penalty for crimes against the ruling authority is equivalent to cruelty, then the Mosaic Law was full of cruelty. Rather than an instance of cruelty, the account shows an instance of profound magnanimity—the cupbearer was restored!
Respectfully,
AuldSoul